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Thread: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

  1. #1

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    Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Seen on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goerz-VC-Dag...item1c2b167ede The listing’s text refers to Goerz Pittsburgh.

    The same seller offers a 50/4 Dagor SL: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goerz-Dagor-...item1c2b1698d6

    Some searching turned up Contraves-Goerz, located in Pittsburgh, Pa.

    More searching found http://books.google.com/books?id=yIs...and%22&f=false which has this text:

    In 1964 Mr. Colker and two associates purchased the Goerz Optical Company of Inwood, New York, a transaction financed by Pittsburgh industrialist Henry Hillman. In 1960 Goerz Optical was merged with the Kollmorgen Corporation and Mr. Colker assumed the role of President and later Chairman of the Board of Contraves Goerz Corporation, a subsidiary of a Swiss conglomerate, Oerlikon Buehrle Holding.

    Under his direction, the company purchased the Goerz-Inland Systems division from Kollmorgen …

    About Kollmorgen’s acquisition of Goerz: http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3282,3546918

    So Schneider didn’t get all of Goerz from Kollmorgen.

    Oh, and by the way, does anyone know what an f/10 VC-Dagor is? 50/4 Dagor SL?

  2. #2

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    At the very end of the last incarnation of Goerz before Schneider, they were talking of releasing a "Super Dagor" lens to be available in two series, SV and SL - infinity and close ratio work being the difference, f5.6 for the LF versions. This is all I remember, but there's a chance I can find the article from 1970 or so that mentioned it. There was a photo with the article credited as being made with a 6" f:5.6 Super Dagor S?.

    When I worked at a machine shop in the late 1980s we made a fairly complex injection nozzle for Contraves-Goerz, used I believe for injection molding styrofoam something-or-others.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  3. #3

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Just to confirm Dan, did you mean to type "1969" rather than "1960" in this sentence?

    "In 1960 Goerz Optical was merged with the Kollmorgen Corporation and Mr. Colker assumed the role of President and later Chairman of the Board of Contraves Goerz Corporation, a subsidiary of a Swiss conglomerate, Oerlikon Buehrle Holding."

    Thank you for this posting. The 1969 acquisition date is consistent with two Goerz price lists I have, one dated 10/10/67 is headed Goerz Optical Company, Inc and the next newest dated 8/1/70 is labeled "Photographic Products Div. Goerz Optical Company, Inc., A Subsidiary of Kollmorgen" The 1967 price list gives an address of 461 Doughty Blvd., Inwood L.I., the 1970 price list an address of 369 Willis Ave., Mineola N.Y. I wonder if the "Goerz-Inland Systems Division" had nothing to do with optics?

    In Bob Schwalberg's history of Goerz in the Jan 1972 issue of Popular Photography he describes the "SL" and "SV" "Super Dagors"as f/5.6 lenses that "will be a modification of the standard Dagor design in which the positive meniscus third lens in each cell is air spaced instead of cemented." He further says the "SL" will be for "close-in reproduction" and the "SV" for "a conventional infinity to about 10 focal lengths range." This article doesn't have an example of a photograph made with one of these.

    David

  4. #4

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    "will be a modification of the standard Dagor design in which the positive meniscus third lens in each cell is air spaced instead of cemented."

    In other words, a Plasmat. That's funny! They're cribbing a design by Paul Rudolph from 1918 (and known then as an "airspaced Dagor") and implying it's new. That isn't the article I'm thinking of, but the information is almost the same and it is from the correct timeframe.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  5. #5

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Thanks for the correction, David. Yes, 1969 is right, 1960 is wrong.

    Re the SL, f/4 is fast for a plasmat type.

    For me the big surprise was that when Goerz finally died the pieces went in several directions.

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Does this air spaced Dagor not have similarities to what became a Schneider G-Claron? If that is the case the lens was already designed before Schneider took over.

  7. #7

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Jan, all plasmat types are similar. So what?

    Early Symmars were dagor types. Early G-Clarons were dagor types. All dagor types are similar too. So what?

    Later Symmars are plasmats. Later G-Clarons are plasmats. So what?

    There's a silly coincidence hiding under every bed. Used to be a Communist. I'm not sure we've gained much.

  8. #8

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Pedersen View Post
    Does this air spaced Dagor not have similarities to what became a Schneider G-Claron? If that is the case the lens was already designed before Schneider took over.
    The airspaced Dagor/Plasmat was designed in 1918, as I pointed out in post #4. Schneider was already making tne Plasmat type Symmar when they took Goerz over, and had been making it since the 1950s.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  9. #9

    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Hi, I am the seller of the 50 mm Dagor Sl and the 10 1/2 in VC Dagor and hope I can help with a little of the Goerz History. It is complicated and involves childhood memories that need verify. My father partnered with Leo Colker and Joe Kalla (sp?) when they left American Optical in the mid-1960's to form Goerz, Pittsburgh division. They concentrated on large optical projects for NASA, but I remember as a teenager seeing them test other lenses on the bench. Whether any of them were produced in Pgh, I don't know. When NASA spending was cut back, the business had to shift. I'm not sure if the above lenses were experiments. I haven't found any evidence of production. I have inherited a number of things that are curiosities. My father had a great love for tinkering with optics and was probably happiest designing one of kind lenses that overcame particular problems. Kollmorgan's bread and butter was and continues to be periscopes. My father took early retirement rather than move to Inwood NY and be a part of that reshuffling in 1971.

  10. #10

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    Re: Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Pedersen View Post
    Does this air spaced Dagor not have similarities to what became a Schneider G-Claron? If that is the case the lens was already designed before Schneider took over.
    I was thinking of this last night. I'm pretty sure that the G-Clarons in production were Dagor types at the time Schneider took over. They switched to Plasmat type G-Clarons sometime in the mid/late 70s. Schneider recently ressurected the Dagor type lens in the 550mm XXL lenses.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

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