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Thread: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

  1. #1

    The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    I can not imagine how Kodak must feel reading some of the threads full of bitching and complaining, people saying they want films like Kodachrome, Plus-X, High Speed Infrared and E6 back when we still have outstanding varieties like TMY, Ektar and Portra…..and the constant dissection of the restructuring.

    And you DO know who Kodak is, do you not? Kodak is not so much the top executives, the shareholders and certainly not Mr. Perez. Who Kodak is are the people who are hard working, passionate about the products and proud of the brand that is Kodak. Who Kodak is are the people like Audrey Jonckheer who are still trying to help film find a way forward…besides buying the film, are you helping?

    There is something else we are not doing…something besides websites like Flickr, APUG, etc. Something besides buying and using film that is not being done and it kept me up until 5AM this morning…it is troubling me..

    Here is the trouble…

    If Kodak were to stop selling film and no one took it over, I think it would be very, very bad for film in general. Here is why: Public Perception based on internet hype. For example, when Kodachrome disappeared, I can not tell you how many people thought that Kodak was no longer making any film and some even thought that meant no film left at all. That's right, one film's disappearance well publicized caused an tsunami of misconception by the general public. The same thing has happened with the C-11 filing by Kodak and all the news that has followed….this is a bad, BAD pattern folks. Because what ever potential numbers in growth that even niche film use there might be with the artistic resurgence of the medium, the growing perception that film is history is hampering a potential market segment that might otherwise give film a try.

    This is not just Kodak's problem, it is Ilford's, Fuji's, Efke's problem and it is OUR problem. As much as I want to see Kodak get really creative in how they market to the potential film user, I think we are missing something really, reeeeally important as the film user. We say we use film, post images, fill our freezers, we do a lot, but we do it for us first, not to help out our film making companies, the ones who depend on us not only to use the product, but get the word out.

    But I really do feel like we are missing the so called boat that Kodak has been said to have missed too…I am not sure what it is, but I am determined to figure it out.

    Maybe it might have to do with crowd sourcing of an ad campaign that is not from the makers of film, but the users of it...something like that can go viral real quick...I think it is something like this that needs to happen, honestly...

  2. #2

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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome25 View Post
    ...Your comment about seeking help has been both quoted and reported to a moderator...
    Dan, you might do what I did -- add that commenter to your ignore list. Unless someone quotes him, I no longer need experience his attitude/slurs.

    To your topic's question, I don't think "we" are missing anything. The public's warm embrace of easy/convenient/inexpensive/inferior technologies is ubiquitous. I don't like it, but have come to accept the reality. No ad campaign, viral or otherwise, will prevent the inevitable discontinuation of Kodak film. Irrespective of Kodak's Chapter 11 outcome, the only open question is how long it will take. I'm not ready to conclude that secondary effects of that eventual end will be fatal for Ilford. In color, I believe Fuji will self-extinguish whether Kodak exists or not. Again, only "when" is unknown.

    My own approach has been to purchase and cold-store a lifetime supply (I'm old enough that it's practical ) of 5x7 320TXP. I'm currently printing it on Ilfobrom Galerie and Multigrade Warmtone FB. Should those eventually become unavailable, I also have 6,000 8x10 sheets of Azo stored. If I outlive the supplies and Ilford's gone, I'll reminisce about "real" photography in my rocking chair.

    I sincerely advise that you continue to pursue film photography with all the enthusiasm you displayed in your Kodachrome Project. Staying awake thinking about how to stop the digital freight train would waste your energy and make a good case that your name should be changed from Dan to Don. As in Quixote.

  3. #3

    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Thanks Sal,

    I just feel like that while we have time, I am going to try to innovate as much as I can in making sure I am doing all that I can to make positive strides for film. If I don't try, and just continue to stock up like you have, then it will bother me if Kodak kills film without any effort from me to find a way forward. If I try and fail, then at least there is Ilford and my 20 year supply of what I need.

    But the perception by the public that film is already gone, a lot by older film users complaining, it has to be curbed in any way we can:
    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...1&postcount=48

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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Dan, you should change your screen name to Clementine, as in miner's daughter, lost and gone forever.

    If you believe Arri's propaganda about the Alexa, color film's last refuge is under strong assault. When movie theaters have finished the transition to digital projection, that may be it for production of color film in volume, Kodak and Fuji.

    I miss KM badly. I used it a lot for macro work with flash. Shooting faster E6 emulsions with ND filters to turn the ambient down just isn't as good. Shooting faster E6 emulsions with lenses in shutter that will sync with flash at 1/500 or 1/400 just isn't as good. Unfortunately there's no going backwards. For that kind of photography, I continue to hope that some manufacturer will release a digital Nikkormat. Full manual control, low "ISO" when wanted, 24x36 or larger sensor, ... I doubt it will happen.

    Not every film manufacturer rationalized production of b/w films as well as EKCo did. Now EKCo's rational taking advantage of economies of scale may kill us, but the smaller scale producers might survive a while longer.

    Cinematographers seem to understand that what they do is tell stories with moving pictures and that the image capture medium isn't that important. We're still hung up on technology ...

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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome25 View Post
    ...If I don't try, and just continue to stock up like you have, then it will bother me if Kodak kills film without any effort from me to find a way forward. If I try and fail, then at least there is Ilford and my 20 year supply of what I need...
    I should add that I'm also using as much Delta 100 as I can, saving the 320TXP for if/when Ilford's site lease doesn't get renewed -- around 15 years left on that. I find Delta 100 on Galerie to be a particularly exquisite combination.

    Both the Delta 100 and 320TXP are developed in XTOL. Within the last few months, I've purchased 40 five liter packages of that and stored it in redundant laminated vapor-proof bags. I hope you succeed and inspire a revival, but am prepared just in case a less positive future happens.

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    photobymike's Avatar
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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    wow Kodachrome that was passion .. I am doing my part, i have a fridge full of film and insulin....When the end comes, i will die with a stocked fridge of film.... While the people at Kodak are people that are passionate about what they do, i am also sure they are business people also. You cant run Kodak like a charity.... It is times like this that we need a new film product. For instance i really like Ektar; it is a quantum leap in film technology.... I really wish that 4x5 Polaroid PN 55 would come back.... i loved that film... if i won the lottery i would invest all my money in making 4x5 PN55 again.... I have thought long on this subject.... and i have come to a weird conclusion ... To make film popular again we need an advancement in scanner technology... A scanner so sharp it would rival digital ...oh low cost and easy to use..

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    おせわに なります! Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    I can not imagine how Kodak must feel reading some of the threads full of bitching and complaining, people saying they want films like Kodachrome, Plus-X, High Speed Infrared and E6 back when we still have outstanding varieties like TMY, Ektar and Portra
    I am one of those hoping (not bitching) for the day when are really true infra-red film such as what Kodak once produced... but how can you put it in the same catagory as TMY, Ektar, and Portra??

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    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    What are we missing? How about good concepts that really touch a person's heart?

    From Kodak Endura Professional Photographs:

    "A photograph never grows old. You and I change, people change all through the months and years but a photograph always remains the same. How nice to look at a photograph of mother or father taken many years ago. You see them as you remember them. But as people live on, they change completely. That is why I think a photograph can be kind."
    -- Albert Einstein
    "It's the way to educate your eyes. Stare. Pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long." - Walker Evans

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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Ken,

    You're playing a pretty free hand with your moderation here. None of my remarks were rude, or if you're extremely sensitive, no more rude than Sal's comment:

    Dan, you might do what I did -- add that commenter to your ignore list. Unless someone quotes him, I no longer need experience his attitude/slurs.
    Do moderators get a pass, or just people you like/ agree with?

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    Re: The Promotion of Film use....what are we missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Dan, you should change your screen name to Clementine, as in miner's daughter, lost and gone forever.

    Cinematographers seem to understand that what they do is tell stories with moving pictures and that the image capture medium isn't that important. We're still hung up on technology ...
    Cinematographers would all love to shoot film but the vast majority of them have little to do with making that decision. That decision is made before the cinematographer is hired. It all comes down to profits. If the producers feel they can do it with video, they save money. Money that buys more cars, homes, plastic surgery, and louis vuitton hand bags.



    When I'm out shooting, I do what I can to explain why I'm "not shooting digital" and often hand out a biz card. When the public buys a print, they don't care what it was shot on as long as they like it.

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