High Volume 4x5 b&w processing

[Tadge Dryja]

Hello

I'm doing a lot of processing of fp4. I'm shooting a lot, and processing pretty much daily at this point. I know that people have discussed trays vs tanks vs etc a lot, but here's what I've tried.

I did tray processing for a few batches. I did 12 sheets at once in a 5x7 tray,and everything seems OK. I don't really mind standing around in the dark. I'd just be standing around in the light anyways.

Then I tried some tank one teacher reccomended. It wasn't marked with a name, but it took a huge amount of chemistry (55oz) and couldn't be inverted. That was a lot more convenient, but two of my sheets got stuck together and the corners didn't develop (which is fine since I'm really just testing right now). Also, besides the stuck sheets, it seems like they all have somewhat uneven edge development, although I'd have to enlarge them to be sure.

So here are my questions:

How many sheets can you process in a tray at once? I've got 6 holders, so I did 12, seemed to work fine. Does 24 sound a little insane? (Well, even if people says it does, I'll probably still try it

Does processing with 2 parallel rows of trays, 12 sheets in each, also sound a little overzealous?

Will I get some horrible disease if I don't wear gloves and soak my fingers in d76? I tried using gloves but it makes me so much clumsier, I know I'd scratch things up.

Any secret way to do high volume, consistent devlopment that no one has mentioned yet? Ah, it was all so much easier when I could just load up reel after reel of 35mm film, and develop them all at once in the light.

Thanks everyone!

-Tadge

[Ralph Barker]

To be honest, Tadge, I'm surprised you didn't encounter problems doing 12 sheets in one batch - particularly in a 5x7 tray. Although I've done 8 sheets a couple of times, I get nervous going over 6-sheet batches. The total volume of developer is a concern, as is the time that individual sheets in the batch are exposed to fresh developer, not to mention the differential in total time in the developer between the first sheet and the last in the batch.

For serious volume production, you may want to consider the traditional large tanks and metal frame systems that were used in labs in the past. The larger metal frames hold 4 sheets per frame, and the large tanks would hold a dozen frames, I believe. Naturally, chemistry was measured in gallons, not mililiters.

[Bruce Watson]

You da man Tadge! Twelve sheets is pretty awesome. You've checked very closely for scratches and found none? Even development on all 12 sheets? I'm impressed. I was never that good with tray developing of sheet film - I could only do six reliably.

My early years in the darkroom I was young and stupid and spent hours up to my elbows in the soup. This resulted in a disease called "contact dermatitis" which is a permanent (so they tell me) sensitization of the skin to the chemicals that irritate it. I was 16 at the time.

Once the doctor slapped me upside the head and told me what an idiot I was, I did some research. I am pretty happy that all that happened to me was brown fingernails and scaly itchy hands. Contact dermatitis is about the nicest thing you can expect if you keep your hands in the soup. Processing barehanded with PMK can get you dead. I don't recommend it.

You should wear gloves designed for the duty when you must put your hands in the chemicals we use for photography. It's the safe, smart thing to do. As you've seen, gloves can slow you down some, at least in the beginning before you get used to them. But you'll likely live longer. Of course, it's your life and YMMV.

Alternatively, you could process in daylight tanks. I use a Jobo Expert 3010 drum. Wonderfully even development, no scratches, no contact with the chemicals, daylight processing. Very consistent, but only 10 at a time. I suspect that you could turn around batches every 30 minutes with out much effort using a Jobo processor. Twenty and hour isn't shabby in my book, but again, YMMV.

For higher throughput, you could use the traditional large tanks with film hangers as Ralph suggests. That would put you up to nearly 100 a run. If you need higher than that, I suspect that you are looking at buying old professional photolab equipment.

There are many ways. Keep experimenting until you find one that is right for you, and doesn't unduly endanger your health.

[Nick_3536]

Use the Jobo reel system [not the expert] and 18 at a time isn't an issue. If you've got the money you could even setup multiple systems. The real expense is the tanks and reels. Tanks aren't impossible to find used. Reels are cheaper new!

[Peter Witkop]

I've personally had good luck with a jobo cpe2 processor and 2500 series tanks (the expert drums are a bit expensive for me ), with the tank I use, I do 6 at a time (one reel), but there are tanks that do up to 3 reels at once I believe, 18 sheets at a time isn't bad. Once everything is setup, and up (or down) to temp, which takes about 15-20 min, I do a batch in about 20-30 min., and about 15 min to clean up. I'd perfer a processor with more than one speed, and a lift, but I'll get that eventually. That's how I do it, anyway, I never had nearly the luck you did with trays. Good Luck.

Peter

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[Ed Eubanks]

I've begun using a hybrid system which I have not seen elsewhere, although I'm sure it has been done before. A local store had a box full of Kodak 4x5 "hanger" style holders-- the large size, described above, which hold 4 sheets each. (They also had two tanks to process them in, but I too was put off by the volume of chemistry involved in such an endeavor.) I bought three of these hangers, at about $2.50 each.
What I've found is that these hangers fit very nicely into my 11x14 trays, and I can develop twelve negs easily and quickly without very much skin contact with the chemistry. I simply lay the hanger in the soup and agitate by rocking the tray. I have found the development to be very even and I am not concerned about the film overlapping or laying on the bottom of the tray, since the hanger holds the sheets separate and also keeps them a centimeter or so off of the bottom of the tray. Also, the amount of chemistry my 11x14 trays will hold keeps me comfortably unconcerned about exhaustion, since I am only doing 12 sheets at a time. I would guess that I could do twice that number with fresh chemistry without concern.

[Jon_2416]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

Get several drums, two bases, whatever. I do other things while my film is processing. Use a timer or a stopwatch for very accurate times.

[phil sweeney]

Try the blue nitrile gloves. You want a tight fit. They are not slippery like latex. I use them for film dev but now use them almost always. Order them at a pharamacy, they are cheap in 100 box. Mechanics buy them in 2-3 packs at auto stores at higher prices.

[John Cook]

For many years, I developed film in Kodak 3-1/2 gallon hard rubber tanks, using their stainless 4-gang 4x5 stainless hangers. It used to be the standard in all professional labs and that equipment was very common. I could run 48 sheets in twelve hangers at one time.

If you can locate this stuff (used) in some dealer's srap pile, you can probably buy it for a song.

Downside is keeping that much liquid chemistry at the proper temperature, ready to go at a moment's notice. A heated, air-conditioned darkroom is almost a necessity. I once knew a photographer in Aspen who kept little glass aquarium heaters in each tank to maintain temperature in the winter.

Plan B is a stainless sink, tanks and water jacket from Calumet or Arkay (if they still make them). In between runs, you can get a paper hat and play "soda-jerk" in the sink.

As for swimming in D76, I believe everyone has a unique genetic tolerance to metol (the bad ingredient). It may take weeks or decades to reach it, depending upon daily time of exposure and your individual body chemistry. But once your body has reached its limit, your darkroom days will be over. I had a friend, back in the 1950's, who ran 16mm B&W film through a big processor filled with D76. He eventually developed blisters on his lungs from inhaling the dust when mixing the developer. Had to sell all his equipment and change professions.

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you're using a replenishable developer like D-76, and if you've got room, a tank line with hangers is the way to go for high volume.

Trays do have the attraction of being easy for multiple batches--no hangers to load, wash, or dry. I think Jock Sturges was known for doing something like 16 8x10's per batch in deep trays.

I do 12 sheets at a time in my Nikor stainless tank, which works like a normal inversion tank for rollfilm. Some people seem to have trouble loading 12 sheets into a Nikor tank. I suspect their reels are bent or the reel isn't adjusted properly. If you are getting uneven development along one edge in an inversion-type tank, you probably need more chemistry. I found this happening with the Nikor tank with 1000 ml of developer, which just covered the reel, but the problem was solved by adding another 100 ml.