Looking to get into 4x5 - need advice

[tagehring]

Hello, all. A few months ago, I lucked into a 1923 Eastman Kodak 2-D 8x10 field camera in pretty good condition. My original plan was to restore this camera and pick up a lens, tripod block, and a few extra film holders to get out and shoot with it. I've never worked with large format before; my main film camera is a Mamiya RB67. So while I'd always wanted a monorail system, picking up a field camera for free was something I couldn't say no to. But after looking at the cost of shooting 8x10 and the limitations of this particular camera, I'm thinking I need to sell it and look at an entry-level 4x5 system. I have access to a 4x5 scanner and darkroom as well, so I have an outlet for what I shoot in that format. All I can do with 8x10 is direct-positive paper or contact prints. The cost of 8x10 film combined with my budget makes it impractical for me to learn with.

So I have the Eastman 2-D with a 12" Kodak Anastigmat f4.5 lens from 1942 and a Kodak wooden 8x10 film holder. The only issues are a missing tripod block and leather carrying strap, a corner of the lens board is missing (fixable with electrical tape), and the left knob for the rise adjustment on the front standard looks to have been broken off at some point in the past. The movement still works and can be locked in place.

What I'm looking for is a 4x5 monorail system (a Horseman 450 or Cambo SC?) with a few film holders and maybe a case. If I sell the 12" Anastigmat with the Eastman, I'd need to find a replacement lens for 4x5. My original plan was to hang on to the Anastigmat to use with 4x5, but it's also a very large chunk of glass and it might be better to find something smaller and wider for 4x5.

The problem is that I have no idea what kinds of prices I'm looking at. I've checked the auction site, and it seems that complete Eastman 2Ds in 8x10 are selling for $300-$350. But those seem to be without a film holder and with a cheaper lens. An ideal situation would enable me to sell the 8x10 and buy the 4x5 with the proceeds, but I'm not holding my breath that that's going to be possible. I can afford to chip in a little extra (no more than $200) above what I make from selling the 2D, but my funds at the moment are pretty limited.

I'm not sure if I'm on the right track here, or if what I want to do is even going to be feasible within the budget I have (proceeds from the 2D + about $200). Does anyone have advice? Any suggestions for where to look for used equipment and means of selling the 2D? I've checked out KEH, B&H, eBay, UsedPhotoPro, and forum listings here and on APUG, but it's all a lot to take in.

[DrTang]

a tripod block isn't necessary, but nice to have

the 12" is too long for a 4x5 for most stuff

if the bellows on the 2D are good (doubtful..but maybe) - look for a 4x5 reducing back and have the best of both worlds

you should be able to make that trade with a private party..maybe not KEH or B&H though

[John Kasaian]

First, have you considered shooting 8x10 x-ray film?
Second, the 12" Anastigmat will probably be too large to fit on some 4x5 lens boards.
Third, since you aren't adverse to classic cameras, you should be able to fiind a Calumet CC400 or a Graphic View II in good condition for $200, maybe less. Both are excellent monorails and are ruggedly built where as newer used monorails have plastic parts, which might not "age" as well.
There is a glut on the market for 4x5 lenses---you can pick used glass up fairly inexpensively but which focal length? What subjects do you want to shoot? That will give us a better idea for making suggestions.
I'd look at the WTS ads here and at KEH. Sometimes you can luck out on eBay.

[tagehring]

a tripod block isn't necessary, but nice to have

the 12" is too long for a 4x5 for most stuff

if the bellows on the 2D are good (doubtful..but maybe) - look for a 4x5 reducing back and have the best of both worlds

you should be able to make that trade with a private party..maybe not KEH or B&H though

Having used the camera on a tripod, I don't really see how it's usable without being able to balance the front and rear standards. Especially with a 3 lb. chunk of glass on the front end. The bellows actually seem to be in great shape; I have a very hard time believing they're the original bellows from 1923, but they are the right color. I'm assuming they were replaced at some point before the camera came to me. The problem with this particular camera is the lack of movements. The only movement I have in the front is rise, and the only movements I have in the back are tilt and swing. That doesn't really help me much with the kind of perspective correction I'd like to be able to do for shooting architecture or landscapes. It's also a bit fragile for what I'm comfortable carrying out into the field. For a studio camera or doing portraits, it'd be great. But that's not what I shoot.

[John Kasaian]

a tripod block isn't necessary, but nice to have

the 12" is too long for a 4x5 for most stuff

if the bellows on the 2D are good (doubtful..but maybe) - look for a 4x5 reducing back and have the best of both worlds
!

you should be able to make that trade with a private party..maybe not KEH or B&H though

Yeah, a 4x5 back would be a slick solution to your dilemma! Mr. Jim Galli might know the wherebouts of one. I'd consider pm-ing him if you're serious. There's all kinds of stuff floating around in the Nevada desert

[tagehring]

First, have you considered shooting 8x10 x-ray film?
Second, the 12" Anastigmat will probably be too large to fit on some 4x5 lens boards.
Third, since you aren't adverse to classic cameras, you should be able to fiind a Calumet CC400 or a Graphic View II in good condition for $200, maybe less. Both are excellent monorails and are ruggedly built where as newer used monorails have plastic parts, which might not "age" as well.
There is a glut on the market for 4x5 lenses---you can pick used glass up fairly inexpensively but which focal length? What subjects do you want to shoot? That will give us a better idea for making suggestions.
I'd look at the WTS ads here and at KEH. Sometimes you can luck out on eBay.

I have thought about x-ray film, and that was the route I was going to take. But the more I thought about it, with having access to a darkroom with a 4x5 enlarger, it seems like kind of a waste to not take advantage of the ability to make enlargements.

Those both look like they'd be good cameras to start with. I'm kicking myself for not taking advantage of it, but when I worked in a camera shop (about a decade ago) where we sold used gear on consignment, we had a customer bring in a complete Calumet starter 4x5 system. Holders, lenses, a case, all of it for about $500. I'd love to get more into architecture photography, as well as outdoor and landscape. Still life is also an interest. I don't really shoot people. Ideally I'd want to find a wide lens and a normal lens to start. Maybe something on the longish side of normal. For my RB67 setup, I've found a 50mm, 90mm, and 180mm cover most of what I find myself needing.

[Greg Y]

Here's a Calumet with a 135mm lens that looks in nice condition for not much money $250
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALUMET-CC-4...item35f314c20e

[Alan Gales]

For inexpensive 4x5 monorails look for Cambo/Calumet, Horseman and also Toyo. As a first lens look for 135mm to 210mm in focal length. There are a ton of 210mm f/5.6 lenses in modern Copal shutters out there in great condition for less than $200 if you look. Arguably a 210mm is your most versatile focal length for 4x5. Of course if you can find someone selling their kit with camera, lens, film holders etcetera you can get the best deal

[tagehring]

So, one thing I'm still a bit fuzzy on. Film holders. How do they work in 4x5 cameras? Are they interchangeable between systems? Is there a specific type to look for?

[Jim Noel]

So, one thing I'm still a bit fuzzy on. Film holders. How do they work in 4x5 cameras? Are they interchangeable between systems? Is there a specific type to look for?

Yes they are interchangeable.
If you want to sell the 8x10 in its current "as is" condition send me a PM.

Jim