Linhof MT Classic v MT 2000 Help

[Salmo22]

I'm looking to acquire a Linhof 4x5 and have zeroed in on either the MT Classic or MT 2000. I downloaded and have been reviewing the Linhof Master Technika System Manual. As I read the technical data on page 35 (see attachment below), these two cameras are nearly identical - except in the "Lenses" category. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with these points of data to interpret what it means to me as a potential owner/operator of a MT Classic or MT 2000. My two questions are as follows:

1. Since I anticipate that all my focusing will be done on the ground glass and I will not be using the rangefinder-coupled focusing offered with the MT Classic, is there any differences between the two in this area that I should be aware of?

2. Am I missing something if I conclude that the MT Classic and MT 2000 offer the same front/back movements with the same bellows dimensions - am I missing some obvious difference?

Thanks all;

Jeff

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

The Classic offers the ability to focus lenses with a rangefinder but you need to have the lenses with a special cam for each lens made in a service center. The MT 2000 has no rangefinder but is more useful with the widest lenses when focusing on the ground glass, since it has internal focusing not available in the Classic.

[Salmo22]

The Classic offers the ability to focus lenses with a rangefinder but you need to have the lenses with a special cam for each lens made in a service center. The MT 2000 has no rangefinder but is more useful with the widest lenses when focusing on the ground glass, since it has internal focusing not available in the Classic.

Gudmundur:

When you say that the MT 2000 "...is more useful with the widest lenses when focusing on the ground glass", what focal lengths are you talking about? Also, maybe I missed it in the manual, but I did not find a reference to the "...internal focusing not available in the classic". Please explain.

Thank you;

Jeff

[Bob Salomon]

Gudmundur:

When you say that the MT 2000 "...is more useful with the widest lenses when focusing on the ground glass", what focal lengths are you talking about? Also, maybe I missed it in the manual, but I did not find a reference to the "...internal focusing not available in the classic". Please explain.

Thank you;

Jeff

He is totally wrong!
The 2000 was introduced without a rangefinder system built in and no way to add cams for focusing.

With the 2000 Linhof also introduced an IR focusing/Viewing module that could be calibrated by the service centers on a specially dedicated computer running an old DOS program. The rangefinder could be programmed for lenses from 65 mm to 360mm and there were two knobs on the right end of the unit. One turned it on and off and the other selected the desired focal length that service had programmed into its memory. To calibrate it each lens they had to be sent to the service center along with the camera.
This focusing / Viewing system projected the proper frame into the eyepiece along with NCO like focal length and lens model, distance, depth of field. The frame would correct for field size and parallax, as the current Multifocus finder does.

However there was a problem with this system, actually a few problems. One, it could not focus accurately on any type of herring bone pattern, this included common things like a picket fence at an angle. Two, it would not focus accurately with 240mm or longer lenses.

You can ID which of the 2000 bodies were the early ones made to accept this finder by looking underneath the top flap of the camera. On these early cameras there was a small rectangular opening that was covered by the body covering material. This was to allow a small IR receiver to protrude under the top flap. Close to the lens and it would receive IR info from a unit that pugged not the two holes on top of the front standard that are usually used to mount the compendium.

As the unit did not function as it was supposed to it was quickly discontinued after the first production run and all units were recalled. We got back all but one that we sold, that one was bought by a woman in AZ. We have no idea where it ended up.
We refunded the cost of the units to all of the other buyers, or to their dealers, the computer is hopelessly out dated today and was disposed of after Martin Arndt died. So, even if you could find one of these units, there is no way to program it today.

[Bob Salomon]

The Classic offers the ability to focus lenses with a rangefinder but you need to have the lenses with a special cam for each lens made in a service center. The MT 2000 has no rangefinder but is more useful with the widest lenses when focusing on the ground glass, since it has internal focusing not available in the Classic.

This is slightly misstated.
A IV, V or Master Technika with a rangefinder needs a cam for each lens cut at the Linhof Service center in your country. For a IV the service center needs your lens, your camera and all previously crammed lenses to properly cam the camera, install the proper infinity stops and focusing scale for the newly crammed lenses. Cams cut for the IV have two serial numbers stamped on them. The lens serial number on the top of the cam and the camera body serial number on the bottom of the cam. With a V or later the service center only needs the lens to properly cut a cam, but then the user would have to install the infinity stops and the focusing scale. If the V or later camera is sent in with the lens then the service center will also install the stops and the scale.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] (Subject is Linhof's electronic rangefinder-viewfinder model)

As the unit did not function as it was supposed to it was quickly discontinued after the first production run and all units were recalled. We got back all but one that we sold, that one was bought by a woman in AZ. We have no idea where it ended up.

Perhaps ebay item # 332155337992 ?

[Salmo22]

He is totally wrong!
The 2000 was introduced without a rangefinder system built in and no way to add cams for focusing.

With the 2000 Linhof also introduced an IR focusing/Viewing module that could be calibrated by the service centers on a specially dedicated computer running an old DOS program. The rangefinder could be programmed for lenses from 65 mm to 360mm and there were two knobs on the right end of the unit. One turned it on and off and the other selected the desired focal length that service had programmed into its memory. To calibrate it each lens they had to be sent to the service center along with the camera.
This focusing / Viewing system projected the proper frame into the eyepiece along with NCO like focal length and lens model, distance, depth of field. The frame would correct for field size and parallax, as the current Multifocus finder does.

However there was a problem with this system, actually a few problems. One, it could not focus accurately on any type of herring bone pattern, this included common things like a picket fence at an angle. Two, it would not focus accurately with 240mm or longer lenses.

You can ID which of the 2000 bodies were the early ones made to accept this finder by looking underneath the top flap of the camera. On these early cameras there was a small rectangular opening that was covered by the body covering material. This was to allow a small IR receiver to protrude under the top flap. Close to the lens and it would receive IR info from a unit that pugged not the two holes on top of the front standard that are usually used to mount the compendium.

As the unit did not function as it was supposed to it was quickly discontinued after the first production run and all units were recalled. We got back all but one that we sold, that one was bought by a woman in AZ. We have no idea where it ended up.
We refunded the cost of the units to all of the other buyers, or to their dealers, the computer is hopelessly out dated today and was disposed of after Martin Arndt died. So, even if you could find one of these units, there is no way to program it today.

This is slightly misstated.
A IV, V or Master Technika with a rangefinder needs a cam for each lens cut at the Linhof Service center in your country. For a IV the service center needs your lens, your camera and all previously crammed lenses to properly cam the camera, install the proper infinity stops and focusing scale for the newly crammed lenses. Cams cut for the IV have two serial numbers stamped on them. The lens serial number on the top of the cam and the camera body serial number on the bottom of the cam. With a V or later the service center only needs the lens to properly cut a cam, but then the user would have to install the infinity stops and the focusing scale. If the V or later camera is sent in with the lens then the service center will also install the stops and the scale.

Bob:

Thank you for your thorough clarification. Not to beat a dead horse, but to make sure I understand, please help me with my second question regarding any differences:

2. Am I missing something if I conclude that the MT Classic and MT 2000 offer the same front/back movements with the same bellows dimensions - am I overlooking an obvious difference?

Thank you;

Jeff

[Oren Grad]

He is totally wrong!
The 2000 was introduced without a rangefinder system built in and no way to add cams for focusing.

Bob, I suspect Gudmundur is simply referring to the built-in wide-angle focusing track in the MT2000. Nothing to do with the IR focusing module. He knows that the MT2000 doesn't have a rangefinder.

The MT2000 is a better fit for the OP's requirements as he intends to use solely ground glass focusing and does not need the rangefinder.

[Bob Salomon]

Bob:

Thank you for your thorough clarification. Not to beat a dead horse, but to make sure I understand, please help me with my second question regarding any differences:

2. Am I missing something if I conclude that the MT Classic and MT 2000 offer the same front/back movements with the same bellows dimensions - am I overlooking an obvious difference?

Thank you;

Jeff

Yes, same movements, same bellows.

It only gets different on the 3000 and those differences I have already told you.