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Thread: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

  1. #1

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    Oct 2010
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    Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    For my future wish list I am starting the process of learning about the differences between the Struss and the various P&S lenses to see if they are a fit for me or not.

    I currently am using the Verito 14 1/2" F4 and Imagon 360 barrel F5.8 for most of my work. I shoot these wide open and like that look the best, and at times I will stop down the Verito to F6. If anyone has experience with all of the above I would be interested in your thoughts about how the Struss and various P&S lenses look in comparison.

    I am approaching these questions from a visual perspective, meaning what type of image will the lens produce without considering the technical design elements. I shoot an 8x10 Eastman View No 2 with a 6x6 lens board if that matters when replying. Technically my camera is an Eastman View No. 2 Improved Model of Century View and Empire State No. 2.

    I have two questions that will hopefully help me learn more about the two lenses without having access to them yet.

    1.) Which of the P&S lenses is the closest to the Struss? When I say closest, I mean the ability to produce similar images without comparing design and technical details.

    2.) For those that have used both lenses, I am curious about your thoughts and comments along with any links to photos you have posted. I did find a link where Jim Galli posted some photos comparing the Struss and Synthetic with some vintage autos.

    You can view my latest work on my Flickr stream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/timlaytonsr

    Thanks,

    Tim

  2. #2

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    what format do you intend to shoot? those lenses you are looking for are a bit hard to find for 8x10....and they are more money..... but you knew that....

    i have used all the lenses you are inquiring about.

    it is very very hard to tell you in words the difference between these sf lenses. they all a slightly different and you need to study the prints side by side to see the subtleties. looking on the ground glass will not do.

    exposure and development play a great deal in what the image looks like...as does the exposure and development times in the dark room.

    i made a post recently talking about this more....i have yet to be able to find it. i am still looking.

    basically you are going to need to use these lenses to be able to tell. you will not be disappointed in either. buy whichever you find 1st. buy the other when you can.

    oh! and do not forget kershaw and spencer portland to name a few others....

    ken lee has been using a kershaw and a P&S lately. check out his postings. mostly are in the flower section. i think he put up some on his web site as well.

    eddie
    My YouTube Channel has many interesting videos on Soft Focus Lenses and Wood Cameras. Check it out.

    My YouTube videos
    oldstyleportraits.com
    photo.net gallery

  3. #3

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    My YouTube Channel has many interesting videos on Soft Focus Lenses and Wood Cameras. Check it out.

    My YouTube videos
    oldstyleportraits.com
    photo.net gallery

  4. #4

    Join Date
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    2,930
    My YouTube Channel has many interesting videos on Soft Focus Lenses and Wood Cameras. Check it out.

    My YouTube videos
    oldstyleportraits.com
    photo.net gallery

  5. #5

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    I know you've been doing a lot of research and may already know this, but the Struss Pictorial Lens is a single meniscus, and I believe has more chromatic aberrations than the Pinkham & Smiths, which work more on Spherical aberration, like your Verito. My Flickr site has a few Struss shots, if you search on that keyword. In the 1910s when the Struss was out, the film was much different than today. When I shot my Struss with the monochromatic wetplate (works mostly on the blue end of the color spectrum), it was extremely soft. With modern film, it's about like a Verito at about between F4.5 and 5.6.

    I'm sorry I'm kind of out of it today, as people can see from my handle, I'm a mule owner and rider. Two of mine that I've had for many years, died from unrelated causes the past two days. So I'm looking at the photo boards again to try to get over them today....

  6. #6

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    I know you've been doing a lot of research and may already know this, but the Struss Pictorial Lens is a single meniscus, and I believe has more chromatic aberrations than the Pinkham & Smiths, which work more on Spherical aberration, like your Verito. My Flickr site has a few Struss shots, if you search on that keyword. In the 1910s when the Struss was out, the film was much different than today. When I shot my Struss with the monochromatic wetplate (works mostly on the blue end of the color spectrum), it was extremely soft. With modern film, it's about like a Verito at about between F4.5 and 5.6.

    I'm sorry I'm kind of out of it today, as people can see from my handle, I'm a mule owner and rider. Two of mine that I've had for many years, died from unrelated causes the past two days. So I'm looking at the photo boards again to try to get over them today....
    Garrett, thanks for the reply. I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I will go look on your Flickr page again and check out the Struss images. In the most ideal situation, whether it be P&S or Struss, I would like to stick with 8x10 format if possible, but I do own and use 4x5 and 5x7. I contact print (Pt/Pd) my soft focus images, so I prefer 8x10 as a first option. The other option is that if I have to go with the smaller format, then I would opt for the 4x5 because I have a 4x5 enlarger and I could make gelatin silver prints and enlargements. My gut is telling me that a Struss will be easier to find and definitely cheaper, so maybe that is the place to focus for now and keep a P&S on the wish list.

    Tim

  7. #7

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Layton View Post
    ... My gut is telling me that a Struss will be easier to find and definitely cheaper, so maybe that is the place to focus for now and keep a P&S on the wish list.

    Tim
    I think you could find the opposite true. I've seen perhaps 15 P&S lenses for sale on Ebay the past 5 years, and quite a few here on this board. I think there is even one in the For Sale section now. Conversely, I missed the last Struss Pictorial Lens I saw on Ebay in 2006 or 7, and didn't see another one until this last year. And I look daily and very conscientiously. I don't believe one has ever been for sale here.

    Struss only made them commercially for a few years, he started offering them in 1914, then went off to teach aerial photography for the Army in 1917, then his career was ruined because he was perceived as pro German (an early Red Scare type scenario). He went to Los Angeles to start over in 1919. So...perhaps 5 years of slow production because he was gone half the time? P&S had a MUCH longer history.

    Karl Struss was the real deal, he shot some pretty nice pictures (below) with the early pictorialists like Stieglitz and White, he produced a his own lens, and then became a famous Hollywood cameraman, and was awarded the first oscar for lens work using his ideas for soft focus.


    http://www.theasc.com/blog/2009/12/1...llywood-years/

    More in this post: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=78953

  8. #8

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    I think you could find the opposite true. I've seen perhaps 15 P&S lenses for sale on Ebay the past 5 years, and quite a few here. I think there is even one in the For Sale section now. Conversely, I missed the last Struss Pictorial Lens I saw on Ebay in 2006 or 7, and didn't see another one until this last year. Struss only made them commercially for a few years, I believe 1914 until about 1920.
    Well, thanks for clearing that up... It looks like I will be enjoying my Verito and Imagon and patiently waiting for a P&S or Struss lens to become available. I will go take a second mortgage out so I am ready to buy...

  9. #9

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    So, is the 14" P&S listed on ebay right now for $5k a good buy at that price or not?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinkham-Bi-Q...item2eba1988dd

  10. #10

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    Re: Struss or Pinkham & Smith?

    "...it is very very hard to tell you in words the difference between these sf lenses. they all a slightly different and you need to study the prints side by side to see the subtleties. looking on the ground glass will not do.

    exposure and development play a great deal in what the image looks like...as does the exposure and development times in the dark room...

    basically you are going to need to use these lenses to be able to tell."


    What Eddie said!

    I'm a novice, but when I look online at my own images made with vintage soft-focus lenses - using an uncalibrated monitor at work - I can hardly recognize them. It's all about nuance. And nuances can vary between Silver Print and Pt/Pd (or inkjet). The color of the final image (warm/cool/neutral) and the texture of the paper (rough/smooth) play their parts also.

    In general, sharp is sharp - but there are many types of softness.

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