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Thread: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

  1. #1
    Les
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    Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Howdy,

    I'm the noob here and after using a 4x5 about 37 yrs ago, I decided to take a plunge. I could use little handholding on this. Anyway, I found this Sinar F+, Schneider 210/5.6 and Schneider 90/8 + many film holders, case, trig release for $600. It seems like a reasonable price. I would appreciate some input as to the price, and some specifics as to what I should be looking for during the purchase transaction. I'd prefer to take few test shots (have blk bag) and process them before I commit to the equipment.

    For time being I'll be using it as B&W camera, since I can't get the quality that I desire out of my D700....and will progress from there.

    I'd appreciate any thoughts or additional comments you can give me. Thanks in advance.http://www.largeformatphotography.in...s/confused.gif

    Les

  2. #2
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Pay attention to the shutters on the lenses. They should be Copals. If they're Compurs the lenses are too old.

    Different vintages of Copal shutters can be distinguished by the color of the speed set rim (and other features).
    The latest version has a black rim, the same color as the rest of the shutter. The previous version has a bright aluminum (silver) rim.

    Earlier shutters are certainly usable, but may require service before they work reliably.

    Here's a list of serial numbers and dates on the Schneider site: http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/age_of_lenses/

    On the Sinar camera, take a look at the levels. There is a chronic problem with them drying out or breaking off.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  3. #3

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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    However late model black Compurs were the best shutters ever made. They were Mercedes quality to Copal's Toyota.

    And my vintage Schneiders in "too old" Compurs are what I use in preference to newer lenses.

    I wouldn't reject a camera over a couple of cheap levels being dry. You can get original replacements ($$) or knock-offs ($) or repair them with a syringe or simply ignore them (use a hardware store level if you need a level at all).

    Sorry to piss all over your post Leigh! That's just my experience. But Leigh's intent is right - usually later Copals are good to go even after sitting for years, they are reliable if nothing else. Compurs tend to require more service because they are more complex mechanisms. I'm talking 10-20 year intervals, nothing scary....

    If the equipment is clean and well-cared for then it is a nice deal. Each main item - Sinar F+, 90, 210, sells for between $200-$400 based on condition and with the extras it makes it better - but used Sinars are plentiful so if this outfit is lacking just be patient as there are many more to buy. The best of the F-series was the F2, which sells for a bit more. Remember that all this gear sold for thousands new.

    Caution on the Sinar F+ - the front standard attaches to the rail with a clamp around the rail. Sometimes a critical plastic piece cracks - one of the few flaws in an otherwise great design. Also the rail clamp, if it is the old plastic rectangular block, can crack, they usually aren't that good anyway.

    Your other question as to a tripod head for the Sinar? The absolute sure thing is the Sinar Pan Tilt Head, which is designed to key into the rail clamp making a very secure, light, and strong quick release system. The downside is that is is not much use with other types of cameras as it only offers pan and tilt axis rotation (the Sinar rail clamp provides the yaw axis.) And they cost at least >$200 usually.

    If you want a cheap head... eh you get what you pay for.

  4. #4
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    However late model black Compurs were the best shutters ever made. They were Mercedes quality to Copal's Toyota.
    Hi Frank,

    I agree completely. I repair shutters, and the Compurs are much more ruggedly built than the Copals.

    I was just trying to point out things the OP might look for, particularly as bargaining points to get the price down if discrepancies are noted.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  5. #5
    Thomas
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    If everything is in working order then 600$ are a good deal for a full starter package.

    If you have a chance to inspect the gear I would check the glass and the shutter accuracy, especially the long exposure times.

    What 90mm lens model is included? Angulon or Super Angulon? If you want to use movements you will need the Super Angulon. The Angulons are nice compact lenses but barely cover 4x5 with no movements at all.

    Greetings, Thomas

  6. #6
    jadphoto
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Just another "go for it" but the info shared so far is spot on as far as I know.

    The Angulon must be a Super as I don't believe that Schneider ever made an f/8 Angulon.

    Check glass for fungus or the dreaded "Schneideritis", check shutters for "consistent" speeds, the camera for overall condition and smoothness of focus/movements, and check the bellows for light leaks.

    If you can maybe arrange a return/trial period (7 days should be adequate) so you can check it out and run some film through it.

    I'm Scottish enough that even though $600 is a good price I'd offer $500. But you may not have that much hutzpah (which I think is Yiddish for single malt...perhaps not).

    Frank is 100% right about the front standard, it doesn't give one much confidence. I bought my F1 thinking that when the front standard broke, it's the same as the F+, I'd replace it with one off an F2. Twenty years later and I'm still waiting, go figure.

    JD

  7. #7
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Definition of "Schneideritis", since the OP likely doesn't know what that means...

    This is a defect in the aluminum anodizing, internal to the lens.
    Looking into the front of the lens, you will see little white spots on the metal surface where the anodizing has deteriorated.

    The problem is so common, and has been around for so long, that it's been given a name.

    I personally dislike it, and avoid Schneider lenses because of it, but that's just a personal prejudice.
    There are lots of excellent photographers who swear by Schneider optics and wouldn't use any other brand.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  8. #8
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    Definition of "Schneideritis", since the OP likely doesn't know what that means...

    This is a defect in the aluminum anodizing, internal to the lens.
    Looking into the front of the lens, you will see little white spots on the metal surface where the anodizing has deteriorated.

    The problem is so common, and has been around for so long, that it's been given a name.

    I personally dislike it, and avoid Schneider lenses because of it, but that's just a personal prejudice.
    There are lots of excellent photographers who swear by Schneider optics and wouldn't use any other brand.

    - Leigh

    I don't swear by Schneider optics, and Leigh's description is bang-on, but I just wanted to add that no matter how unsightly Schneider-itis may look, it has, from my experience, no effect whatever on the image quality.
    It does usually have an effect on selling price, though, so if it's there, use your "Scottish", as Joseph says, and negotiate a lower price.

  9. #9
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    I just wanted to add that no matter how unsightly Schneider-itis may look, it has, from my experience, no effect whatever on the image quality.
    I believe that's correct.

    Although I have no personal experience with that product line, it's my understanding that the problem is cosmetic and does not affect the lens performance.

    If a particular lens had a really severe case of it, there might be a bit of flare as a result, but I think such a scenario is highly unlikely.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  10. #10
    Les
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    Re: Sinar F+ and two Schneider lenses

    Thanks to everyone that helped....all suggestions dully noted.

    Les

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