CALTAR-S II 210mm f5.6 Vs Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 210 5.6

[akfreak]

I was hoping that those who know the differences of the two lenses and are willing to chime in.

I have Google'd, I have wiki'ed, I have done all the regular searches. Now I ask the people that know. I have cells for both lenses.

I want to know your thoughts on each of them. Which one is considered the better lens and why. The Caltar-S-II is considerably larger I know size doesn't mean much, it is just an observation.

I made a video (link here) to show you exactly what I am talking about. I know I will get the, "Just go shoot them and see what you get", so I will go ahead and take that out of the dialog, Thanks for taking your time to watch/read and respond to this thread, AKf

[Ari]

I think the Caltar has the larger image circle.
I have no experience with convertible lenses, but I've rarely heard people say good things about the "converted" lens' performance.
Apart from that, I would imagine it'd be difficult to see the differences until you make ginormous enlargements.
And, finally, you know what I'm gonna say... , especially if you are going to make a Caltar/Schneider sandwich.

[Chauncey Walden]

Akfreak, I think the Caltar-S II is a Symmar-S. If it is one made after1977 if would be marked MC for multicoated. Unconverted, it would be a better lens than the plain Symmar. The Symmar-S is not generally considered convertible but perhaps with the early ones they marked them that way in case someone wanted to try it. The plain Symmar may be somewhat better as a converted lens.

[akfreak]

I pam to shoot each as a complete unit, then shot in the various combos, both good cells, both bad cells, and switch good/bad, vice versa.

Should be an interesting test. I wonder what a good still life subject would be good for testing? I thought a white on white, egg gradient. I need to drill a lens board from coapl 0 to 1, That should make a nice mess with a dremel tool. My Cambo boards are aluminum.

[Louie Powell]

Quoting Kerry Thallman's article on Caltar lenses in the May/June 2003 View Camera, "the Type S Caltars were simply privately-labeled versions of Rodenstock's own Sironar products." In Table 7 of that article, he described the 210mm lens a a six element (in four groups) design with a 70 degree angle of coverage, and 294mm image circle. It was mounted in a Copal 1 shutter, and required 77mm filters. The lens was offered by Calumet between 1976 and 1983.

[akfreak]

Quoting Kerry Thallman's article on Caltar lenses in the May/June 2003 View Camera, "the Type S Caltars were simply privately-labeled versions of Rodenstock's own Sironar products." In Table 7 of that article, he described the 210mm lens a a six element (in four groups) design with a 70 degree angle of coverage, and 294mm image circle. It was mounted in a Copal 1 shutter, and required 77mm filters. The lens was offered by Calumet between 1976 and 1983.

So it is not a Schneider, now this is of opposite of all I have read. Off to research more the information you made. Thanks for your time.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

So it is not a Schneider, now this is of opposite of all I have read. Off to research more the information you made. Thanks for your time.

Actually, if your lens is a Caltar-S II, it is a Schneider, identical to the comparable vintage (1976-83) Schneider Symmar-S. It covers 70 degrees, for an image circle of 294mm in the 210mm focal length and takes 77mm filters.

To help straighten this all out, you really need read the entire article (Caltar Lenses: Past and Present, May/June 2003 View Camers). From 1965 through 1984, Caltar lenses were made by five different OEMs on three continents. The period from 1976-1984 was especially full of upheaval.

Adding to the confusion, there were three different Caltar "S" lines. The original S-Series Caltar wasn't really a "series" as it consisted of a single lens - the 8 1/2" f4.8 S-Series Caltar was made by Ilex, had 71 degrees of coverage for a 307mm image circle. It was made from 1967-1977. The Type S Caltars (1970-1976), as quotes by Louie, were made by Rodenstock and identical to the original Sironar series. Coverage was 70 degrees with an image circle of 286mm in the 210mm focal length with a 58mm filter size. And, as mentioned in my first paragraph, the Caltar-S II line was made by Schneider.

I hope that helps straighten it out for you. In summary:

Series-S Caltar (1967-1977) = Ilex
Type S Caltar (1970-1976) = Rodenstock Sironar
Caltar-S II (1976-1983) = Schneider Symmar-S

Kerry

[rdenney]

I can't watch videos here. Can't you just post a picture of the two lenses? Surely that would take less time than making a video to ask a question.

The Caltar S-II is a Schneider Symmar-S. The Caltar II-N is a Rodenstock Sironar-N. There is no Caltar II-S that I know of. Yes, it's confusing. The Schneider Symmar (with no "S") is a Symmar Convertible, which is an older design than the "S". I would prefer the one in a newer shutter and with better coatings, whichever one that is. But even the old Symmar Convertible is a fine lens.

Rick "video deprived" Denney

[akfreak]

Sorry you cant see video. Its the wave of the future, that magic box that plays talking pictures. I asked more than a few questions in the video, and the view of the lenses speak for themselves. It is actually Less time to make the video than to load up pictures and type a post, actually.

The little G12 is awesome for quick video and it uploads without any conversion at all in a couple of mins to the Utube.

I will post pics for you in a bit. Thanks for the great info Kerry. It seems to clear things up. I have 2 different lenses for sure. I bought the Schneider in the hopes to replace the bad front cell on the Caltar. Dont think that is going to happen, I am just going to play with all of the glass and see what looks best. What a shame.

[edtog]

I've got a Caltar 210mm and always assumed it was a rebadged Rodenstock.
It's a great lens and I've never had any problems with sharpness, for the price compared to the main brands I think it's a no brainer.