lens challenges for Linhof Technikardan

[tadler]

hi. i have two questions:
i'm about to receive a Technikardan 45S and would like to use my Caltar N-II 75mm f4.5 with it. i wanted to ask which lensboard i should look for: recessed or flat? centered or not? original, Wista or generic?

i would also like to buy two other lenses in the 150mm and 240mm range. my next project involves focusing on shorter distances: i need to fill the length of the frame (horizontal) with a 20-30cm long object. it's actually a transparent object and i want to see the (out-of-focus) background/landscape through it. i shoot outdoors. i hope i will have some dof laverage to control the amount of out-of-focus; background should be somewhat recognizable, not TOO abstract.
so in a way, this is a "close-up-with-bokeh-landscape" kind of project..

which lenses would you recommend? i'm only looking for used gear.

thanks!

[Noah A]

I'm sure Bob S. will chime in here, but I'm relatively certain you can use the flat lens board for your 75mm. The TK is great for short lenses. The standard bellows should focus the lens, but you'll need the bag bellows if you want any movements with such a wide lens.

The main thing I wanted to point out is that while some generic lensboards will fit, some won't.

I switched from a Wista field camera to the Linhof thinking that I wouldn't have to change lensboards. But my genuine Wista boards didn't fit my TK45S well. They can be forced into place (or ground down to fit) but they're generally too tight.

My TK came with a few genuine Linhof boards and they fit perfectly, of course.

You probably can't go wrong with any modern lenses in the 150-240mm range. I prefer the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S series. I use the 135mm, 150mm and 210mm and they're probably the three sharpest LF lenses I've used. I also used the 240mm when I shot 8x10 and it was amazing as well. The Apo-Sironar-S lenses all have very good coverage for their focal lengths. I've used them at the reproduction ratios you're talking about with great results.

Enjoy your TK! It's a wonderful camera.

[Arne Croell]

As Noah said, you can use a flat board for the 75mm. As for the boards, new Linhof ones are the safe bet. All others, including some old Linhof boards, may or may not need some removal (filing away) of the paint at the edges on the sides to make them fit.
A 20cm object filling the long side means about a 0.6 magnification. The TK can still handle that with the focal length range of 150-240mm, but the longer one will already need about 390mm of extension. It is also seriously in the macro range, so you might consider a lens corrected for closer distance. Your out-of-focus background will be more blurry with the longer lens for the same f-stop and size of your foreground object.

[tadler]

It is also seriously in the macro range, so you might consider a lens corrected for closer distance.

yes, i'll probably have between 0.3 to 0.6 magnification in this project. which lenses in the 150mm to 240mm range will be more suitable for me? does that mean they will be LESS suitable for longer distances? i don't really know how different they make these lenses or what are the differences exactly.

thanks!

[Bob Salomon]

001143 is the factory specified board.

[Arne Croell]

yes, i'll probably have between 0.3 to 0.6 magnification in this project. which lenses in the 150mm to 240mm range will be more suitable for me? does that mean they will be LESS suitable for longer distances? i don't really know how different they make these lenses or what are the differences exactly.

thanks!

Less suitable for distances? It depends - yes for specialized macro lenses, not so much for some of the symmetric process lenses like Apo-Ronars or G-Clarons.

[tadler]

ok, so which lenses do you suggest, specifically?
thanks

[rdenney]

ok, so which lenses do you suggest, specifically?
thanks

How big a print do you intend to make? For even quite large prints, I think you'll find that the difference, even at this close focusing, between available modern lenses at 150 and 240mm focal length will be negligible.

Also, in an iimage that shows a lot of blurry softness in the background, the apparent sharpness of whatever texture is on your semi-transparent subject will be quite high.

You might be more interested in the rendering of those blurry backgrounds. Lenses differ quite a bit, depending on the patterns in those out-of-focus areas. In large format, tessar designs have a nice, old-world look to the blurry parts, for example. But at small apertures, they are still quite sharp.

Modern plasmats are made for extreme sharpness, and most of them were used routinely for product and commercial photography, so I would not expect any of them to show weakness for your project unless you expect extraordinary sharpness over very large enlargements.

Process lenses like the Ronar and Claron tend to be slow (f/9), which is nice if you want a small lens, but they don't make focusing and composing any easier. They are generally designed for 1:1 duplication but they perform over the range if sufficiently stopped down.

There are specialized macro lenses for magnifications greater than 1:1. Bring your checkbook.

Check the length of the bellows on the 45S for a 240mm lens used at 1:2 (18x24 cm stage with 4x5 film). The object distance will be about twice the lens distance. Here is a reasonable formula:

1/f = 1/So + 1/Si

where
f = the lens focal length (mm)
So = the object distance (mm)
Si = the image distance (mm)

For 1:2, Si = 2So, so

1/f = 1/So + 1/2So = 1.5/So

and then

So = 1.5f

These are approximations, but they will be close enough for determining if you have enough bellows draw. Thus, the bellows draw for the 150mm lens at 1:2 will be 225mm, and the bellows draw for the 240mm lens will be 360mm.

Rick "not sure all 4x5 bellows happily stretch to 360, so it's worth checking" Denney

[tadler]

How big a print do you intend to make? For even quite large prints, I think you'll find that the difference, even at this close focusing, between available modern lenses at 150 and 240mm focal length will be negligible.

Also, in an iimage that shows a lot of blurry softness in the background, the apparent sharpness of whatever texture is on your semi-transparent subject will be quite high.

. . .

Rick "not sure all 4x5 bellows happily stretch to 360, so it's worth checking" Denney

yes Rick you're absolutely right, for this specific project lens sharpness isn't really the question. the objects will look quite sharp anyway because of the shallow dof. however, i try to get a good lens because i'll want to use it later for other projects where sharpness might matter more. anyway, i got it, not much difference between contemporary lenses. good!

my prints should be around 150cm - 200cm wide (horizontal/landscape).

and yes you're right again, it will matter more how the out-of-focus area is rendered. maybe i should ask people to post close-up-with-background photos just to see the effect of different lenses? i wish i could see examples before actually deciding on a lens...

and yes, the TK allows enough room for 1:2 and larger than this with the 240mm. i have more than 500mm bellows draw.

thanks again for your comments and suggestion, i'm off to read about lens designs now...