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Thread: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

  1. #11

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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    Quote Originally Posted by engl View Post
    Neither of those two cameras take bag bellows AFAIK, and for architecture you might want that. The Wista 45VX does take bag bellows, and has generous front rise as well as geared front tilt and rise.

    You could also look at something like the Shen Hao HZX or TZ45. Both take bag bellows (or Chamonix universal bellows), have quite extensive movements, and can have the back standard moved forward to keep the front bed out of the photo with wide lenses. You will need indirect rise to get to the edge of the image circle with something like a 72XL or Nikon 90/8 though.

    Edit: There are also non-folders like the 4500$ Ebony mentioned above, or on a more modest budget, the Shen Hao XPO and Walker Titan XL 4x5. I wish the Titan XL would have had rear rise or tilt, since I sometimes need more front fall than it provides. I use a Chamonix 4x5 for urban shooting, pretty similar to architecture in camera needs. Extremely capable, but I wish it had swing zero detents.
    I was concerned that the Shen Hao HZX 4x5 wouldn't have the movements that I wanted; I've been proved wrong. I have a Fujinon 90mm which I use with the bag bellows, and in the year that I've been using it with the Shen Hao, I haven't had a problem with vignetting, despite having to do a pretty severe rise last month for a fairly tall historic factory building on a narrow street. As you mentioned, the ability to push the rear standard forward to the lens eliminates the concern that the front bed will be in the image.

    For the kind of documentation work that I do, I might not test a camera's movements in the way that a more formal architectural photographer will, but I haven't been disappointed yet (especially given the price of the camera!).

    Bruce

  2. #12
    lenser's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    Mark, If you are staying with exteriors only, you can probably get by with a 90mm as your wide angle which will work somewhat well with a standard bellows as long as the building isn't too tall. For interiors, a 65mm or 58mm or in extreme cases a 47mm will be needed and for any of those, a bag bellows is a must for any kind of camera movements as well as compression to get focus properly for the shortest lenses. So, I would suggest you don't even look at a camera that doesn't allow for a bag bellows.

    I use my old Zone VI almost daily for architecture and it does a wonderful job with lenses ranging from 47mm to over 300mm. It does have interchangeable bellows and a very full range of movements. They are relatively inexpensive and very easy to work with even though they may not have quite all the bells and whistles of a new Shen Hao or Ebony.

    Even though they have been out of production for some time, it is quite easy to find lens boards and bag bellows on this site, at KEH, and of course on the the auction site.

    I've been using mine for nearly twenty years without any sign of a problem, so I will vouch for it.
    Last edited by lenser; 24-Jun-2011 at 20:09.
    "One of the greatest necessities in America is to discover creative solitude." Carl Sandburg

  3. #13
    Dave Karp
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    My Walker Titan SF has lots of movements, and can take a bag bellows. It works fine with a 90mm. I will have to slap my 75 on it and see how it works. I am sure that with the bag bellows you can use a 75 or 65 on flat boards with it. The only issue to check with the 75 is whether you can use all of its movements without impairment by the "box." I think it will be all right. Walker says you can use down to 47mm with a recessed board.

    The camera has front base and axis tilts, front rise, and front swing, rear shift, rear base tilt, and rear swing.

  4. #14

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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    If you can swing it, a Technikardan or Arca would be the ultimate, replacing your F2 as fine general purpose cameras.

    But if you need to save some money, the Sinars are not that bad.... You can always make the Sinar F2 more compact by learning how to fold it for backpacking (search for a diagram, it is not intuitive but it works) and substituting a smaller (original, first version) F or Norma tripod mounting block. A folding focusing hood from a Crown Graphic can protect the ground glass and a Technika lensboard adaptor up front can make your lens collection more compact. And the Sinar Pan-Tilt head is a very nice tripod head that streamlines the camera as well. All of those parts added together are a fraction of the cost of all but the cheapest cameras mentioned above....

    And it sets up in a flash, is infinitely expandable, has unlimited movements, handles any lens you could ever use, doesn't cost very much, and is a lot more robust than any wooden camera. (Just a few minor points!)

    All the folding box cameras are going to compromise on something that will inhibit architectural photography, you have to decide if you can live with those restrictions.

    If you want to get crazy, you could always do this: http://glennview.com/sinar.htm

    Scroll down to: HALFBREED SINAR/GLENNVIEW CAMERA
    The Sinar modular system is extensive, but some of us are never satisfied. I wanted a compact and lightweight yaw free camera with self-braking movements that accepted Sinar lensboards. The Sinar Alpina or A1 came close, but wasn't quite there, so I designed and built my own. It is offered w/o back, bellows or lensboard because likely you already have those items. The camera is less than 9.5" tall by 7.5" wide. The camera is 2.5# when mounted on the 6" rail. The camera is 3# when mounted on the 18" rail. A Sinar GG back and bellows will add 1.5#. Such a lightweight camera will allow you to use a lighter weight tripod. $500.

  5. #15
    Death Before Digital matthew klos's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    shenhao.

  6. #16
    Dave Karp
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    Mark,

    The Titan SF works fine with the 75mm. The box might restrict rise a tiny bit depending on where the lens is located, by eyeball very close to the limit of the image circle.

  7. #17
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    I have a Wista RF and highly recommend it.
    It can take my 65mm with recessed board, however, as another poster mentioned, the bag bellows do get in the way when using too much front rise.
    Like any camera mentioned here, it has one or two drawbacks, but it is a very solid and well-designed piece of kit, with many options for the architectural photographer.

  8. #18

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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    I bought a Linhof Technikardan for architectural work. It is not light or small - but has a really good bag bellows and a lot of movement - especially front rise. The better lenses for architectural work - have a lot of coverage and are also not small or light. The folding of the Tecknikardan with the standard bellows seems to be one of the main complaints about the camera - I keep the bag bellow on the camera and put the standard bellows on it when I need it.

  9. #19
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    If you can find one, there is a perfect one:

    Carbon Infinity.

    47mm lens is not a problem at all, with bag bellows. Nor is a 500mm lens, with the standard bellows. It isn't exactly small though, but it does fold up rather neatly in its clamshell.

    If the movements you need with very short lenses is limited to rise/fall and front shift, then an old tailboard camera would actually be better and cheaper. My 24x30cm "Reisekamera", unknown maker about a century ago, can easily focus a 47mm lens at infinity with a full 15cm movement in either direction (8/7 up/down, 7.5 right or left). AND it can focus an 840mm lens at portrait distances...

  10. #20
    Carpenter
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    Re: 4x5 folding camera for architecture?

    Another vote for the Technikardan. Best camera I've used so far. I keep the bag bellows attached and it's pretty damned fast to setup and break down. I bought a BGN grade version of the non "s" for under $900 on KEH. About the same size and weight of my previous Zone VI 4x5.

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