The role of education in the art of photography

[Bill Burk]

Some lively discussion has been sparked by the question of whether or not art school "is a good thing."

I have a unique perspective. I'll follow-up later with that but an important factor was my dad, former high school art teacher, who is here tonight. I thought I'd just ask him.

What did they teach in high school art, could you learn art history?

His answer, "Well, if there was a teacher who knew art history, they could offer a class and you could get credit for it as an elective. But most of the time what we did was productive art. We got the kids busy making art and at the end of the year they had this body of art, but they didn't know what it was."

[Bill Burk]

'And then the other side of the equation, you got the lecturers who taught the students everything about art...'

'But when asked to do a drawing they said. "Oh no, I don't do art!"...'

[rdenney]

My high-school art teacher was a well-respected local artist in Houston, and he spent part of the year on history but most of it following a pretty well-trod technique path starting with line quality, blind drawing, gesture drawings, false shading, and ending with exercises design to challenge our ability to see what is there. He demanded realism in the sense that he expected us to draw what we saw and not what we dreamed up through being too lazy to see. Considering the time he had, he covered what I think is the most important stuff. He concentrated on the better students and demand everyone's best work.

My college art teachers were not as good, frankly.

Rick "whose formal art studies never progressed beyond drawing" Denney

[paulr]

We're lucky to have any art in schools. The whole enterprise is threatened by political interests that see the arts inessential. The result is going to be kids in wealthy districts and private schools getting arts education while no one else does.

[Darin Boville]

We're lucky to have any art in schools. The whole enterprise is threatened by political interests that see the arts inessential. The result is going to be kids in wealthy districts and private schools getting arts education while no one else does.

On the other hand, of the art classes that I've seen or heard about talking with other parents, many/most/all seem to be--what is the word I want? Put it this way. The kids come out of there not knowing a single living artist by name. So its not really a culture class. Very light on art history so its not really a history class. Jumps from drawing to painting to sculpture to whatever. So not really a technique class. Grades are largely based on enthusiasm and effort, not achievement.

No doubt the members of this forum all have had better experiences.

So my thought: If high school art classes don't take themselves seriously why should I?

--Darin

[paulr]

I don't know if that's fair. Crappy art classes are just a lesser symptom of art curricula being given a low priority.

[Brian K]

We're lucky to have any art in schools. The whole enterprise is threatened by political interests that see the arts inessential. The result is going to be kids in wealthy districts and private schools getting arts education while no one else does.

And why do they view the arts as inessential? Let's say you're a member of congress, or a member of your state senate, or a member of the local school board, and you just went to a museum and saw a show of contemporary work, work that looks like it was done by a 10 year old, or worse still, you see Serrano's "Piss Christ" or some other often considered offensive work, just how motivated are you going to be to fund the NEA, or that statewide art program, or hire that art teacher over a math or science teacher when test scores are dropping?

The average person today views much of what the art world is pushing as bull shit. Hell, I went to art school, taught art school and made my living in art for 35 years and view much of it as bull shit, so what do you think some farmer, factory worker, admin, or firefighter is going to think? And you can argue that they are stuck in the traditional notions of beauty and that they just don't get it, but they know what they like, they know what they value, and they're not going to pay for something they view as frivolous when their roads are crumbling, their jobs are at risk and they can't pay for their healthcare.

When the politicians and general public viewed the creation of art as a valued skill, that it's perpetuation and support benefitted our society, it was easy to fund it. But now it's often viewed as silly and superfluous.

[Brian K]

My art education started in High School, junior year. I had previously played with photography but never considered the art aspects of it. My school then had classes in all the arts except glass blowing. I took a sculpture class. My teacher was a painter but was well versed in the other arts. He started me sculpting in stone.

Carving stone requires patience, something I was lacking, but knowing that rushing the work could lead to a catastrophic failure, literally cracking the stone in two, I had to learn patience. In my sculpture class there was a group that was seriously dedicated to the work. We'd call ourselves the sculpture club. We would stay late after school to work on our pieces, we'd cut classes to work on our pieces, it was the first real commitment I ever had to anything. The group would go to museums and galleries, our conversations, if they weren't about girls, would be about art.

My first stone took about 2 months to complete. I couldn't wait to start on my second.
By now I had bought my own tools, (I still have them) and was getting the hang of it. My photographs were starting to change at this time. They were more thoughtful, and I was spending more time on them as well and it was showing in the work.

There were advantages to being in the sculpture club, cutting classes being the biggest. But this perk came only because of one thing, the National Scholastics Art Competition. Apparently for 2 years running a sculpture student from my school would win a medal in this competition and apparently it was a big deal. The principal would have the winning piece appear in his office after it came back from being exhibited and he was quite proud that this average NYC public school was now considered quite highly for it's arts programs, and he too would bask in the glow of it. So we had perks. Cutting classes, staying past school closing, coming in on weekends to work, we pretty much could do what we wanted.

In my senior year, the principal called a special session in the auditorium, actually two sessions, as the auditorium could only hold half of the 5200 students at any one time, the purpose, to announce that again we had won National Scholastics medals.
I did not attend this, I was already working as an intern through a high school program, I was in Manhattan assisting 4 advertising and editorial photographers. The announcement that I missed, I had won a National Scholastics Gold medal.

That internship program that directly led to my becoming a photographer, gone. That sculpture program, gone. Most of those art classes, gone. They still have a football team, they still have a baseball team, they still maintain a huge athletic field. But almost no arts.

If there had been a public outcry against cutting those programs maybe they'd still be in existence. But apparently the arts aren't appreciated as much as football.

As for my art teacher, we've been friends for a long time. And whenever he and his wife visit NY, which is often, we seem them.

[bob carnie]

I walked into photography- Fanshawe College - three year photography program in the fall of 1973.

Two months earlier I was setting chokers in a High Lead Logging camp on Vancouver Island. I had never taken a photograph before grabbing the required Minolta 35 to do the course.

Immediately the head of the program wanted to throw me out as I had zero background in the arts and did not belong. Fortunately a teacher by the name of Don Dunsmore, worked with me , encouraged me, introduced me to some of his friends- Stevan Livik being one notable person, I barely passed first year but from then on I have been hooked on photography and have been lucky enough to place my printing in some of the worlds nicest Museums and private collections and hopefully a lot more.

My take is a good teacher is one who gives you the confidence/encouragement to continue on and does not immediately peg you as a loser and talks over your head.

[Ash]

Education has allowed me to know "how" and "why". I totally rely on art history to contextualise what I'm doing, whether it is justification to myself or to someone else. However as a result none of my work is good enough to the standards I compare it to.