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Thread: Interior church shot-need help

  1. #1

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    May 2005
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    Interior church shot-need help

    Our Presbyterian church is undergoing an inside renovation. I am to take before and after photos of the chancel. The church is quite large, high ceilinged, stained glass windows(with light coming from the rear of the church) hanging lights over the seating area, and additional lights in the chancel. Flash isn't in the cards. This is not my bread and butter-I have never done this stuff, and don't like doing it...

    Questions...I have a 4X5 ebony and 150MM and 90 MM lenses, but am uncertain as to film type(B&W only), filters, exposure etc. Typically I spot read the deepest shadow with detail, and then develop according to the hightlight. Is the highlight the lit bulb? Should I use filter? Would an incident light meter work better than a spot indoors? Is FP4 or TMax better for this- what I imagine will be an expansion development, but not certain.

    I know-lots of variables but any help is appreciated.

  2. #2

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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Terry,

    I can give you a few tips, but it would help to know if you are going to output digital or silver gelatin prints.

    You are correct that flash would not be good; it would wash out a lot of details. A spot meter would be better, and either film would be appropriate; that being said I think T-400 film would be best. For exposure in church interiors I put shadows on Z IV or V, and either do N- or compensation development depending on the range of light. I can't see expansion development being necessary for the majority of your exposures. You will be faced with a wide range of light.

    Filters would be unnecessary - there is more than enough contrast, and with the extended exposure times you will be facing you will gain contrast with no problem. The 90mm lens will be the most useful lens, but in some cases you will need the 150mm lens.

    You may gain some ideas for camera position and composing by looking at photographs by others, here are a couple of suggestions: www.mprosenberg.com; www.virtuallygrey.co.uk ; www.dokasphotos.com

    Regards,

    Mike

  3. #3
    Joanna Carter's Avatar
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Saltaire United Reformed Church



    Ebony SV45Te, Rodenstock 90mm f/5.6, Fuji Acros 100.

    No filters, metered for the darkest part of the pews at the back and the brightest window. 12 stops range. Over-exposed by 1.3 stops, developed N-3. Measurements were for scanning not darkroom printing, thus the wider than usual range.

    In the negative, you can see detail of the "frosted" glass in the windows and the woodwork on the back of the pews.
    Joanna Carter
    Grandes Images

    UKLFPG

  4. #4
    David Brown bigdog's Avatar
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakotah Jackson View Post
    Meter the shadows and shoot as you normally would.
    Ditto.

    Seriously, you're overthinking this. If you can get good negatives shooting your "bread and butter", then you can with this. There is nothing magic about the interior of a church.

  5. #5

    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Walk around the church with your meter and check the lighting at various locations that you determine to be important from the camera position. Write them down as you go and see what that looks like. It'll start making sense at this point.

  6. #6
    Louie Powell's Avatar
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Terry -

    Look at Joanne's example, and be envious! That is a gorgeous photograph.

    One of the problems with interiors, and especially interiors of churches, is that the lighting is extremely contrasty. My suggestion is that you spend some time with your light meter making spot measurements, and recording them on a quick hand-sketch of the chancel. You have to understand the illumination range of the scene before you even think about making an exposure.

    In particular, meter the brightest highlight area, and the deepest shadow area in the scene. Using Joanne's image as an illustration, I would pick the back of the nearby pews as the deepest shadow, but I would also want to meter the dark area directly above the chancel. Highlights are an exercise in judgement - you can ignore the specular highlights in the lights themselves, and also in the windows along the side walls. The brightest highlight that you need to worry about in this image is probably the reflections on the organ pipes, but I would also measure the bright areas on the walls next to the light fixtures and the lights in the chandelier.

    Having made the measurements, then compare the exposures required for the brightest highlights rendered as Zone VI, and the deepest shadows rendered as Zone III. If you are lucky, you can capture that range in one exposure, perhaps with N- development to compress the range.

    But what if the range exceeds the capability of your film with the maximum compression development you are willing to try (I never go less than N-2)? A trick that Fred Picker talks about in his book 'The Fine Print' is to superimpose two exposures on the same sheet of film. The first exposure is with the interior lights turned off and using only window light. Then, without moving the camera, recock the shutter and do a second, shorter exposure with the lights on. Interiors like this are almost always fairly long exposures (typically, minutes) so reciprocity failure must be factored into the equation. But that also means that overexposure of 25-50% won't make much difference in the shadows. Adding a second exposure, with the lights on, that is 25-50% of the exposure with the lights off, can result in a more pleasing balance and dramatic compression of the contrast range.

    Finally, take your time and bracket. A church interior is a static subject, and unless there is an earthquake, it's not going anywhere. Making multiple negatives at different exposures gives you more material to work with when you get into the darkroom.

    Film - whatever you normally use. Don't increase variables by experimenting with an unfamiliar film.

    Lens - I tend to use a 90mm lens for interiors, but my 'other' lens is 210mm and that's a bit long to capture the spaciousness of an interior. In your case, however, you may prefer an image made by placing the camera at the back of the church and using your 150mm.

    Oh - and if you really want a challenge, try that double exposure trick using color film. Often the lighting in churches is from a mixture of sources - daylight, incandescent and even fluorescent. In that case, you can also play around with compensating filters to try to achieve a color balance. That said, using 'incandescent' film can be interesting because highlights caused by daylight through the windows will be very blue - adding some interest to the final image.

  7. #7

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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    1) count on bracketing

    2) if possible, shoot on an overcast day to even out the window light. If the stained glass is only on the back, just shoot after the sun is off the glass. If you shoot really early or late in the day you can find a time when outside light is balanced with the inside light.

  8. #8
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    [QUOTE=Terry Hull;736714]Our Presbyterian church is undergoing an inside renovation. I am to take before and after photos of the chancel. The church is quite large, high ceilinged, stained glass windows(with light coming from the rear of the church) hanging lights over the seating area, and additional lights in the chancel. Flash isn't in the cards. This is not my bread and butter-I have never done this stuff, and don't like doing it...

    As has been suggested, shoot on an overcast day, likely to save you almost two stops of additional unwanted contrast.

    Use a film with a lower contrast profile, i.e. HP5, not FP 4 or Tri-X or Tmax

    Give generous shadow exposure and or a reduced agitation regime of film development. N-6 is quite possible with most modern panchromatic films.

    Joanna's image is quite nice but as indicated designed for a scan and that contrast does not translate to wet processed prints.

    Lastly, stay way clear of any teachings from Fred Picker.


    Real photographs are born wet !

    www.PowerOfProcessTips.com

  9. #9
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Lastly, stay way clear of any teachings from Fred Picker.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  10. #10
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: Interior church shot-need help

    Pre-flash the film.
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

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