What's your best super-low light formula for small formats?

[sully75]

Hey all,

I end up working a lot in very dark bars. Still hoping to not go back to digital.

I recently tried some HP5 @800 in Diafine (what they rate it at). Not satisfied at all with the results. Even in broad daylight I had limited shadow detail.

I have a feeling Tri-X would be better in diafine, and get me 1600, but looking for suggestions. I have a roll of HP5, and don't necessarily want to dump it unless I'm going to get significantly better results with Tri-X.

Open to suggestions of other developers (stand?), film, etc.

For various reasons I'd rather not use one of the 3200 speed films, I'd really like to use something I can bulk load if possible (I've been rolling 10 shot rolls and find it's really helpful because I can shoot at various speeds and not have to burn through a roll to get a new one in there). I don't think any of the 3200 films are available in bulk?

Perhaps I should just get back to the DSLR. My results are close to what I'd like, and I really like the grittiness of film but just need a little more oomph...

[Jay DeFehr]

Paul,

I recommend TMY-2. Your D-76 is a viable option for development, but you might get better shadow detail with Microphen. If you want to mix your own developer, there are many more options. TMY-2 alone will substantially improve your results- the stuff is miraculous.

[sully75]

Thanks Jay, hadn't thought of that. For the record, are you not a fan of diafine?

[Jay DeFehr]

I wouldn't go that far. I don't share the same enthusiasm others seem to, or believe the film speed figures claimed for it, but mostly it's just not very useful in flat light, not very sharp or fine grained, and I don't care for the gradation. For scanning, it's probably a more viable option under a wider range of exposure conditions, since one can bend the curve at will. TMY-2 is so fine grained, that's not likely to be much of an issue, and sharpness is probably not the first consideration when shooting handheld in low light. If you have some on hand, it's certainly worth a try. Best of luck, Paul, and I hope you'll share your results.

[BetterSense]

TMY in Xtol.

[atlcruiser]

arista p 400 shot at 1600 (ie tri x)

rodinal 1:50 60ish min manual agitation, 45ish min roller

here is an example....i shoot this all the time..love the look

leica M6
CV 35/1.2


rff pano-80 by urbanlandcruiser, on Flickr

[Bill Burk]

TMY-2 rated EI 400 in D-76 1:1 developed by inspection.

I spot the significant shadow (in this case the walls) and place on Zone II or III.

If forced to handhold, like here at Hearst Castle, I lean up against something and make the shutter release as smooth as possible.

I sometimes handhold 1/60 despite the rules that 1/125 is probably the limit. Other times I underexpose a stop hoping to pick up the detail in development.

[Asher Kelman]

rff pano-80 by urbanlandcruiser, on Flickr

Two very impressive images! No point of going to great lengths and not getting a good picture! Kudos! I use roll film 6x17 on my 8x10 camera sometimes, so I find this discussion very valuable.

Asher

[Roger Cole]

I love Diafine but three points: 1) you may not, 2) the film speed is more real with some films than others and it works best of all in my experience with Tri-X, and 3) only for lesser pushes. Tri-X anywhere from 800-1600 (I usually shoot at 1200-1600) is my all time favorite combination for situations where that is enough film speed. In a bar without flash, it's not nearly enough. In 35mm there's no real substitute, IMHO, for TMZ. I prefer T-Max or T-Max RS developer, usually RS because that's what I keep on hand for sheet film. Use the Kodak recommendations for one stop more. That is, if you shoot it at 3200, use the Kodak figures for 6400.

Unfortunately Kodak doesn't make TMZ in 120, so now that I have a 6x6 camera I've bought some Delta 3200 to experiment with. I understand it isn't as fast or fine grained (not as important at 6x6, that one) as TMZ, but I think it's probably faster than anything else in 120.

EDIT: Maybe this thread should go in The Lounge since it isn't Large Format? I started to post a TMZ image shot by torch light at 3200, but then realized I shouldn't in this forum because it's not LF.

And EDIT II - I agree with a comment I saw on APUG to the effect that handheld shooting in very low light is the one situation where I concede the complete superiority of digital. Game, set and match in those circumstances.

[Bill Burk]

Thanks Asher,

It was a realization of an image I held in mind for a long time before it came up in front of me with less light than I wished for.

Roger,

Mine is 4x5, and I know Paul works LF and is able to do this.