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Thread: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

  1. #1

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    Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    5 have a canbo 4x5 with a nikon nikkoe w 135mm lens on a Copal 0. It seems I cant get a 240-300mm in a copal 0 so I moved up to a Copal 1. I found a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC for a reasonable price, I was wondering if anyone here has used this lens and what do you think. I like to make sharper portraits but a little soft is ok. I reall want a fujicon 260mm I have read great things about it, but the price is a little much this week. I have a 3 week window to shoot tons of portraits as my wife will be on vacation. Any input is greatly apprciated, AKf

  2. #2
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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    I wasn't aware that the 210mm f/6.1 Xenars were multicoated. Mine isn't.

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    210 is a wonderful length for portraits on 4x5. A Xenar is (correct me if I'm mistaken) a Tessar design. Tessars can be plenty sharp. Nasty sharp. Compared to newer designs, Tessars have limited coverage, but within their limits, they are superb.

    I prefer Tessars for portraits. Here is an example shot made with a 250mm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar on 4x5.

    What kind of aperture does the Copal 1 have ? By that I mean, how many blades ? If it has many blades, then it will have a circular aperture - which will help give a smooth blur rendition. Below is one that has 18 blades. It's coated, fairly new, but in barrel.

    If you want the subject to be entirely in-focus, then blur rendition doesn't matter - in which case the Xenar will be wonderful. Or, you may not care about the shape of blurred areas - again, the Xenar will be wonderful.



    If I were buying a Tessar for portraits, I'd get one either in barrel, or in an old shutter - because those old shutters have wonderful circular apertures. They are generally cheap because people think that a new shutter will be better. When I tested my vintage shutters with a Calumet Shutter Tester, I found the speeds to be quite accurate.

    Last edited by Ken Lee; 12-May-2018 at 11:00.

  4. #4

    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    210 is a wonderful length for portraits on 4x5. A Xenar is (correct me if I'm mistaken) a Tessar design.

    I prefer Tessars for portraits. Here is an example shot made with a 250mm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar on 4x5.

    What kind of aperture does it have ? By that I mean, how many blades ? If it has many blades, then it will have a circular aperture - which will help give a smooth blur rendition. Below is one that has 18 blades. It's coated, fairly new, but in barrel.



    If I were buying a Tessar for portraits, I'd get one in an old shutter - because those have wonderful circular apertures. They are generally cheap because people think that a new shutter will be better. When I tested my vintage shutters with a Calumet Shutter Tester, I found the speeds to be quite accurate.
    I agree with Ken on those late, single coated Zeiss Jena Tessars from the former East Germany (DDR). They are very well made, both optically and mechanically and a real bargain - since they are barrel mount and the cells don't readily fit any modern shutter. Still you can use them with a Sinar, Packard or Luc shutter, or front mounted on a big shutter, like a Compound V. Keeping them in their original barrels preserves the original many bladed diaphragm.

    In addition to the Schneider Xenars and the genuine Zeiss Tessars, there are many other Tessar type lenses out their, including the Kodak Commercial Ektars and the Bausch and Lomb Tessars that were produced under license from Zeiss. The Bausch and Lomb Tessars are usually quite inexpensive, even post-WWII coated samples in working shutters.

    Kerry

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    The looks of the 250 with 2 subjects a 210 may be a little wide for portrait work on 4x5 I may go to 300, I like to compress subjects to a narrow backdrop, I am looking for a narrow fov when working on 8ft seamless. My 135 is way to wide for portrait, I thouhgt 210 may be narrow enough, nit I guess not.

    What is the minium focus distance on an average 300mm lens on a 4x5, I am still up in the air but I need to act fast, or my window will be gone. I plan to use it as long as possible. I have 4 days until the vac starts


    As to the sharpnees of a Tessar lens, it will render what is in focus sharp, however bokeh (oof blur) is a function of aperture and subject distance, no?

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    I don't think 210 is too wide but your taste may differ. If it's an environmental shot usually you want more information in the image anyway, so wider can be better.

    It's probably a fine general purpose lens, good for portraits but the older 210/4.5 design in the compound shutter is even better for portraits (also it will have a rounder aperture for better bokeh. But those usually sell for more. If you are getting a clean nice 210/6.1 in a modern shutter for under $200 it seems like a reasonable price to me.

    The 210/5.6 Symmars and Sironars are also great values. They can be very sharp but there are ways to diffuse things -- or actually learn to appreciate a crisp, sharp portrait. The older single-coated ones with rounder apertures and a bit of haze can be pretty nice lenses actually, sharp and smooth, lower contrast, nicer for B&W.

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by akfreak View Post
    What is the minium focus distance on an average 300mm lens on a 4x5, I am still up in the air but I need to act fast, or my window will be gone. I plan to use it as long as possible. I have 4 days until the vac starts

    As to the sharpnees of a Tessar lens, it will render what is in focus sharp, however bokeh (oof blur) is a function of aperture and subject distance, no?
    A 300mm lens has very shallow depth of field, unless you stop it down considerably. That requires fast film, bright illumination, slower shutter speeds, etc.

    Blur or bokeh has been discussed ad nauseum, and while it varies with aperture/focal length/subject distance, it can also affected by the shape of the aperture - especially when there are dots in the distance. Also, lenses differ in their rendering of OOF areas, in front of and behind the plane of focus.

  8. #8

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    I shot some pairs and triples with a 300mm on 4x5 and it was iffy keeping them all in focus unless I was very careful to keep their faces in the same plane, even at f/22.

    A 210mm would be a lot easier.

    I think a 300mm on 4x5 is great for individual portraits, very classic and traditional.

  9. #9

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    A 210 6.1 Xenar would serve you very well. If you want creamy smooth with perfect round aperture, shoot them wide open. I concur that like the G-Claron's, Schneider didn't multi-coat these. They're single coated and that's actually a plus for portraits.

  10. #10

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    Re: Is a SCHNEIDER XENAR 210MM F:6.1 MC a good Portriat lens for a 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    A 300mm lens has very shallow depth of field, unless you stop it down considerably. That requires fast film, bright illumination, slower shutter speeds, etc.

    Blur or bokeh has been discussed ad nauseum, and while it varies with aperture/focal length/subject distance, it can also affected by the shape of the aperture - especially when there are dots in the distance. Also, lenses differ in their rendering of OOF areas, in front of and behind the plane of focus.
    You say a 300 mm has a shallow dof, HUH do you mean FOV field of view. DOF is a function of aperture and film/sensor and subject distance relationships. I fell like I am real stupid all of a sudden

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