Is the Betax No. 4 shutter worth a CLA

[lonehusker]

Hi everyone,

I just bought a Kodak 2D 8x10 and the camera comes with a Turner Reich 12/19/25 in fair condition (the lens has some air bubble). The shutter is a Betax No. 4 and although B and T mode work fine, the others all fire with the same speed. I wanted to have it CLA'd and give it a try. After looking around, I found that flutotscamerarepair.com can do it for $60.

This is my first LF camera/lens, so I'm not sure if it is the right thing to do. Is this shutter worth a CLA? How much would it cost for me to buy the same lens+shutter in working condition? Do you think that I will be fine with just the T and B mode?

Thank you.

[Mark Sampson]

lonehusker,
The bubbles in the glass are a function of how optical glass was made then. They were sometimes advertised as a sign of quality.
Any shutter is worth fixing up, especially at that low price from a respected repairer. (The lubricants inside have most likely turned to varnish and mud after many decades.)
The Turner-Reich is a well-respected lens, and as it's a triple convertible you are getting three lenses in one. Edward Weston used one for much of his work seen in the Book "California and the West".
Certainly you can use only T & B; many people use 'barrel' lenses with no shutters at all. But a working shutter is much easier to deal with.

[BrianShaw]

(1)

(2)Is this shutter worth a CLA?

(3)How much would it cost for me to buy the same lens+shutter in working condition?

(4)Do you think that I will be fine with just the T and B mode?

1. Yes
2. Probably more than the cost of having it serviced/repaired.
3. Dunno, but see answer #2. Check ebay compeleted sales.
4. No. Could you do that with 35mm?????

There is an inherent risk. IF the shutter ends up being unrepairable you might have paid the price of the servicing to find that out, and in that case you'd be having to buy a new lens to replace it.

Personally speaking... I'd take the bet and have it serviced and hope it comes back in usable condition.

[Wayne]

Hi everyone,

I just bought a Kodak 2D 8x10 and the camera comes with a Turner Reich 12/19/25 in fair condition (the lens has some air bubble). The shutter is a Betax No. 4 and although B and T mode work fine, the others all fire with the same speed. I wanted to have it CLA'd and give it a try. After looking around, I found that flutotscamerarepair.com can do it for $60.

This is my first LF camera/lens, so I'm not sure if it is the right thing to do. Is this shutter worth a CLA? How much would it cost for me to buy the same lens+shutter in working condition? Do you think that I will be fine with just the T and B mode?

Thank you.

It would cost you $130 or best offer to get the same lens and a working Betax #4, right now in your local Large Format Forum classifieds. Ok that was a shameless plug for the lens I'm selling, so for penance I will say this: I like the Betax shutter, though I love the Alphax. But both are good and I think its worth CLA, and I cant imagine why it would be unrepairable. I think its worth the risk.

[mandoman7]

I've had a couple of purchases of cameras that came with lenses having balky Ilex's and had good results from removing the top covers and swabbing the moving parts with lighter fluid. You can google and get some good pictures and procedures for dismantling the shutter. I'm convinced the main reason the shutters get slow is from oil and gunk getting old and sticky, rather than mechanical failure in most cases. It may seem risky, but a CLA isn't always the most wise investment for older lenses that may only be worth $200 in good condition, IMO. The swabbing has been the cure for 3 Ilex shutters I've had in the last year, so I'm a fan of this method obviously.

[Curt]

Send it in for a CLA.
Betax shutters are fine.
Stop down and use B&T.
Send it to SkGrimes and get it fitted into a Copal shutter for the cost of a Copal shutter and the machining necessary. Probably in the range of $800.00.
Clean with light fluid then send it in for a CLA and repair.

[lonehusker]

Thank you all for the responses. I will send it out to CLA then. I am new to LF, so I just wanted to have something to start with.
Wayne: I would buy yours if I didn't get this lens with the camera
mandoman7: I don't think I can fix it myself as I don't have any tools nor the skills. The aperture blades look really delicate and I am afraid of ruining them.
Curt: What is the benefit of fitting it to a Copal shutter? If it cost $800 then I think I will just buy a new lens+shutter.

[Wayne]

Send it in for a CLA.
Betax shutters are fine.
Stop down and use B&T.
Send it to SkGrimes and get it fitted into a Copal shutter for the cost of a Copal shutter and the machining necessary. Probably in the range of $800.00.
Clean with light fluid then send it in for a CLA and repair.

Most baffling reply I've seen in a while. We have a newby and you are telling him to send $80 worth of glass in and spend $800 on it. Great idea, if you are paying.

[Vlad Soare]

The bubbles in the glass are a function of how optical glass was made then. They were sometimes advertised as a sign of quality.

Mark, that sounds interesting. Could you please elaborate a little?
I have a 14" Anastigmat Ektar with a visible air bubble. I've always wondered how it managed to pass Kodak's quality control. It didn't occur to me that it might have been considered normal at the time, let alone advertisable.
How did they make optical glass, and why were bubbles a sign of quality?

[lenser]

The turner-Reich is a very versatile lens (although you may not be able to use the longer set ups due to the limit of your bellows length, and the Betax shutter is just fine.

I've got the same focal length Turner Reich and had to have a top hat (extension) lens board made in order to use the longest set up on the cells. And that is taking into account that Kodak Master 8x10 has a very long bellows to start with. With the normal set up, or with the middle focal length, you should be fine as is.

I also have and am quite happy with a Betax on one of my Verlostigmats (another triple convertible lens set) and it works beautifully after Carol (Flotot's) did her CLA magic.

She does fantastic work and is a great person so be ready for a reasonable waiting period. It is worth it for both the quality of work and for her prices which are incredibly reasonable.