Tessars and image circle

[BetterSense]

Are Tessar lenses very limiting?

I'm poor and trying to buy lenses for my first monorail camera. Unlike my speed graphic, I can't get away with random enlarger lenses and scrounged elements, because I actually need a working shutter. 150mm tessar lenses are fairly cheap, but I'm wondering if I will regret it in terms of image circle. One of the key reasons I bought a monorail is to use more movements than my speed graphic allows. Even though I'm poor, it would be folly to buy tessar lenses and then have to re-buy plasmat lenses when I find out I need more image circle. Schneider's website says the 150mm Xenar has an image circle of 180mm at f/16. Can someone translate that into how much movement is available? Do you find tessar-formula normal lenses very limiting in terms of image quality and image circle?

[ic-racer]

Are Tessar lenses very limiting?

I'm poor and trying to buy lenses for my first monorail camera. Unlike my speed graphic, I can't get away with random enlarger lenses and scrounged elements, because I actually need a working shutter. 150mm tessar lenses are fairly cheap, but I'm wondering if I will regret it in terms of image circle. One of the key reasons I bought a monorail is to use more movements than my speed graphic allows. Even though I'm poor, it would be folly to buy tessar lenses and then have to re-buy plasmat lenses when I find out I need more image circle. Schneider's website says the 150mm Xenar has an image circle of 180mm at f/16. Can someone translate that into how much movement is available? Do you find tessar-formula normal lenses very limiting in terms of image quality and image circle?

You might want to look into a 210mm Tessar. I believe it will have much more image circle, maybe 250mm or so.

As to how much movement you get, well the easy answer is to subtract the format diagonal from the image circle and divide by 2. That is how much diagonal wiggle room you get. To break that down into vertical and horizontal you need to do some simple trigonometry. If your format is somewhat close to square (4x5) then you can estimate by just dividing the number by two again.

Example: 4x5"
Diagonal of film about 150mm
Image Circle about 250mm
Diagonal movement from center = 50mm
Vertical movement from center = a little greater than 25mm
Horizontal movement from center = a little less then 25mm

[Oren Grad]

How tight is your budget? Taking a quick peek just now I see that KEH has in stock a 210 Caltar-S II (Symmar-S) in EX condition for $199, and a 180 Nikkor W in EX condition for $215. Both are modern plasmats that will give you gobs of coverage for 4x5. KEH happens to be short on bargain-priced 150's at the moment, but if you keep an eye out some of those will likely show up too.

[John Kasaian]

You might find a 203mm Ektar for under $200. A 162mm Wollensak Velostigmat is an exceptional 4x5 lens---sharp when stopped down and bokeh-y when shot wide open. I haven't seen one in awhile but they used to go for cheap. Another alternative is to find a 150 or 210 G Claron barrel lens and shoot it with a "hat" until a shutter shows up(a #0 copal or prontor scavenged off a polaroid copy camera should work) All these should give you plenty of wiggle room

[Martin Miksch]

I use a 210 Xenar on 5x7, it will give you plenty of movement on 4x5, the 180 is also usable on 5x7; over the time I collected a 135, 165, 180, 210, 270 and 300, the 165 is a Zeiss, the others are Schneider; beside LF I have a very good Tessar Zeiss T 45/2.8 for Contax and a very good Mamiya 135/4.5 which is also a Tessar design. Gowland used Tessars on his Gowland TLRs, IMO the Tessars are a bit underrated, they are very sharp, at least in the center.

[Ole Tjugen]

There is a little difference between different Xenars, so you first have to decide whether to buy new(ish) or old used. The latest Xenars have a little more image circle than the older f:4.5 ones.

But if you want image circle, i would recommend going straight for a plasmat. I have the full set of the old Symmars, they are more than sharp enough and have lots of image circle. See if you can find a 180mm Symmar for a reasonable price.

[cdholden]

Why do you NEED a shutter? I have one of the 162mm Velostigmats that John mentions above. It's currently mounted on an unused enlarger cone. I would be willing to part with it for the cost of postage. How about a 180 Symmar-S in shutter at a fair price? Send me a PM to discuss since this isn't the classified ads.
Shutters are overrated unless you require flash sync. ND filters can help slow things down to make barrel lenses more usable.

Chris

[Richard Rankin]

If you have to have a shutter, I second the Caltar 210. Mine was the very last modern lens that I sold. It had been my go-to lens for years and I've seen them well under $200.

However, if you are really poor, then Chris is correct. With barrel lenses, you can several amazingly good lenses for what a Caltar or anything else in shutter would cost. Buy a filter holder and some ND filters and you can shoot anything anywhere. I use the rubber band holder that I think is from Lee

Richard

[BetterSense]

I just don't understand this about not needing a shutter. You must live in a location where the wind occasionally stops blowing. I'm well versed in shutterless shooting, but I find that I often need to use at least 1/125 to prevent blur from the wind.

[BrianShaw]

If you want to shoot with movements you'll likely need a "decent sized" inage circle, like that offered by the Symmars mentioend above or any otehr plasmat type lens. It might help the discussion if you would educate us about your definition of "poor"... is $200 + shipping too much for you? If not, there are options. If so, then maybe reconsidering just how much movement your interested in using.

BTW, I live where we have sunlight and I can't make shutterless camerawork work for me. I think you'll really want a shutter... may even even moreso than movements.