Staying with MF or going to LF ?

[Noah A]

Like others I've gone through quite a few formats. I started with 35mm, in college experimented with 6x6 and 4x5 and at my job as a photojournalist I used mostly 35mm then small-format digital.

A few years ago I started shooting 8x10 to slow down the process and make a different kind of photographs. But I found it a bit TOO slow (not to mention too big to travel with and too expensive for (color) film and processing). I then went to 6x7 with a Mamiya 7 kit, and now I'm shooting 4x5 again and I'm very happy with it.

I think every photographer should at least try a view camera sometime. It's a great way to learn about photography and it may help improve your smaller-format work as well.

I also think that just wanting to try something new is a valid reason to switch to LF.

Having said that, once you're past the expirimental phase, it seems to me that you should pick your format based on the work you want to do.

There are a few reasons I can see to shoot LF over MF:

Perspective Control--camera movements can be important for keeping vertical lines vertical, controling the plane of focus or even for intentional distortions if that's your thing.

Image Quality--If you want the richness of a contact print or an incredible amount of detail in a very large print, LF is still the only way to go.

Slower working method--This can be a pro or a con depending on what you want to do. But for certain types of work it can improve your photographs.

I'm sure others will have their own reasons, but for me these are the main ones. I do a lot of work in urban environments and I don't like converting verticals. I also do 40x50in. or larger exhibition prints. So 4x5 is a great format for me.

I'd stick to 4x5 for your first foray into LF. The equipment is probably cheaper and more readily available than 5x7. And there are limited film choices in 5x7, at least in color.

If you really want to focus on contact printing, 8x10 might be a better choice. You could always get 4x5 and 5x7 backs so you'd have the best of both worlds. But the camera will be large, heavy and more pricey than a 4x5.

Whatever you buy,as others have said numerous times on this forum, your first LF camera will probably not be your last. So buy something cheap and used and you can resell it once you know what features you need and don't need in a camera.

If I were you, I'd go for either a 4x5 press camera or an inexpensive 4x5 monorail, depending on if you want speed of use or more ability for movements.

[Henry Carter]

My main camera is a 4x5 Linhof Masrte Technika Classic, and I have never regretted this purchase made new in 2000. It is truly an outstanding tool, and one of the great camera of all time. It is made for life!

A couple of years ago I acquired a late production used 2x3 Linhof 'Baby' Technika as a travel camera. I had it refurbished by Linhof and cammed with new 55, 100, and 180 lenses. I shoot with 6x9 roll-film backs.

This camera is smaller, lighter, and more convenient to use than its 4x5 bigger brother, and you have all the advantages of movements, ground glass composition, as well as easier hand-held use. You can use a smaller and lighter tripod, and carry a complete kit all day. And those 6x9 negs can be quite big and beautiful, yielding outstanding quality.

Does the 6x9 Technika replace 4x5? No, but it complements it, and it gives you an alternative to 4x5 when you would not consider taking the 4x5 at all.

[tweenkle]

I just read again every answer and, first of all, I do want to thank you for the time you spent to give me all those pieces of advise which are very very helpfull.

I'll try to sum up everything (sorry for my poor English but I'm French).

I also had a look at the pics some of you did and they are really great.


1) On the whole, about 30 posts advise me to go LF but also to keep (and not sell) my MF gear.

2) Only four or five advise me to stay with MF (either with my Mamiya Universal or with a SLR, which is better than RF for portraits and still life, or namely with a Blad). Two suggest to buy a 6x9 gear with movements (like Baby Linhof Technika).

Of course I'm conscious there is some bias because we are here in a forum devoted to LF...

3) Five voted in favor of 5x7 instead or along with 4x5 (like a dual format Deadorff).

4) A couple think I'd better begin with a cheap gear (like Cambo/Calumet) or generally with a monorail instead of a folding.

After having made some additionnal reading following the directions you indicated, here is my today opinion (but it may change as I keep studying the question) :

A) As Ken Lee has wisely suggested I need to take my time before buy a LF.

B) I'm not going to sell my Leica, but maybe I will change (in the future) my Mamiya Universal for a Mamiya RB or for Blad (but that's not the point today). Thanks everybody.

C) a 6x9 (like the Baby Linhoff for instance) could be a way to experiment movements. I saw a mint Plaubel Peco Jr with 3 lens on a German dealer site, which I find more than beautiful and which sounds sturdy and cheap. But I don't think it's a good idea, as 4x5 is not more expensive and would be easier to use.

D) I won't choose neither a dual format (5x7 + 4x5) nor a 5x7 as my first LF

E) I'd probably buy a cheap monorail LF. In that category, the Sinar Norma which is cheap, beautiful (there is one at the Moma), sturdy and compatible with the Sinar family, is on top of my list (I found one offered under 300 $)

F) I'd probably buy a 210mm as my first (and maybe sole) lens (thanks Ken)

G) I'd probably use 4x5 sheet films and not 6x7 120 (even If I could enlarged with my Durst 670) ; I'd buy a 4x5 enlarger or alternatively a good flat scanner. I'd process myself the film (only BW). I'd also use backs for Fuji instant film, both 3.25x4.25 (for cost reasons) and 4x5

H) I'd probably look for a long rail (420mm to have 1:1 - thanks again Ken).

I) and what else... ?

Thanks again everybody

[tweenkle]

no comment ?

[Noah A]

I think you're on the right track now. Find yourself a cheap monorail or field camera and a good 150mm or 210mm lens and start shooting. Buy everything used, not new.

If you like it you can tailor your kit to your needs. If not you can sell the gear and probably get most of your money back.

Have fun!

[Brian C. Miller]

I started cheap with a Graflex Super Graphic years ago for $500. I still use the camera. There are plenty of excellent cameras that can be purchased cheaply. Just make sure that the bellows are good and no light leaks in them.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

What exactly is it that you're trying to achieve with a jump to large format? Where is your present equipment letting you down, what are your strengths as a photographer and will these be better served by a format change?

Instead of thinking of "which camera" first and foremost, I'd suggest working backwards from which lenses you'll likely need. Lens decisions will best be predicated on the subject matter you intend to shoot. Bit of a challenge to know all that (in any more meaningful way than finding other photographers imagery and finding out what focal lengths and coverage they used), without personally shooting LF for awhile.

So the advice of jumping in and getting a cheap camera is not bad at all since the format jump itself will affect your way of seeing and thinking. This can be a very good thing if your imagery is getting stale or you're looking to expand into some new area, but could be frustrating if trying to replicate a look that a smaller format actually achieves better.

Not all lenses fit all camera types, and some will be infinitely easier to use with certain camera designs. Cameras with greater precision and larger moves will be more versatile but are generally heavy. Lenses with more coverage will be may be so large as to not fit anything but a monorail or a wooden field.

LF not only makes possible image-plane/focus plane moves-- it often requires them while a smaller format does not. Smaller taking apertures are otherwise needed due to the longer focal lengths involved for the same angles of view in smaller formats, at a penalty of very slow shutter speeds. (Sometimes moves don't help like when the subject matter does not all fall into roughly one plane.) OTOH, razor thin Depth of Field can be exploited for other purposes, like in portraiture, due to these same LF qualities.

I've got a couple of technical field cameras (Meridians), a Super Graphic, and a Sinar Norma 4x5. I gravitated toward the Meridians because they do essentially everything a Linhof Master Technika will do (and some things better) at ~1/5 to ~1/20th the cost. After using them for a year and a half, I bought the Norma (with a bag bellows) to exploit the moves of my Nikon SW90 f/8-- specifically rear rise, font fall. But the Norma gets the least use. Most of the time I don't need all the moves to be worth the 2lb extra weight of the camera nor the 2 lbs heavier tripod head.

[tweenkle]

Thanks Ivan.

I wish to make both portraits and still live (even macro) and I really find it very difficult to obtain good resuts with the Mamiya Universal (with macro tubes). I understand RF is not the appropriate tools to shoot that.

Ken Lee's pictures are more the kind of pictures I dream to do.

Also, I'd like to explore movements.

As far as I understand 210mm would be the more appropriate to the kind of pics I'd like to shoot.

I also love beautiful cameras (I love my Leica M2, which I consider as one of the most beautiful camera ever).

If I were to buy one of those two LF, which one would you suggest :

- a mint Plaubel Peco Jr 6x9 with 3 lenses (I'm conscious that the market of parts is very narrow and that 6x9 is not as open as 4x5 but I find it so cute). approx. 650 $ for the kit

- a very nice Sinar Norma, with no lenses. approx. 350 $

- a mint Linhof Super Technika V with grip and a apo-sinaron 5,6 210mm. Approx. 1500 $ (this one is on top of my list).

So, what would you do ?

[Robert Hughes]

Use both MF and LF - and digital. Good camera gear is so plentiful nowadays you just can't go wrong with any format that tweaks your fancy. Sell off what you don't use, so you don't fill up your basement with good cameras you forgot about.

[Scott Davis]

I'd skip the Plaubel - it's a good system but an unusual one and parts and accessories for it will be few and far between. The Sinar Norma is a great camera, and I think in the end you'll be less limited by it than the Linhof. This is not a dig against the Linhof, it's a great camera. But the Norma has a million accessories that will fit it, and it can do everything the Linhof can do, and better in many cases, except be used hand-held. If your budget is $1500, then the $1150 difference between the Norma and the Linhof will buy you a very nice multi-lens kit, film holders, darkcloth, and even a hand-held meter if you don't already have one.