How To Make Very Dense Negatives

[mdm]

If you want a negative with a density range of slightly more than log 3, how do you do it? (You can make a carbon print with 20 or 21 tones on a 21 step wedge.)

Lets use the sunny 16 rule on FP4+ as a baseline.
f16 at 1/125 in sun with hard shadows.
f8 at 1/125 in overcast conditions with almost no shadows.
f5.6 at 1/125 in open shade with no shadows visible

How would you expose and develop in theese 3 situations to get the density range you are after. Agitation, timing, developer choice etc. Film choice? (I use FP4 and Pyrocat M)

You do not have a densiometer. You have the simplest light meter if any. You are denser than a brick shithouse yourself.

I need help but please keep it simple.

[panchro-press]

Density is a function of exposure; contrast is a function of development.

That's as simple as I can make it.

Dave

[Vaughn]

I don't find such general readings useful. I like to know the range of light available and go from there.

For example, I took a photo of three redwood snags -- on my Pentax digital spot meter, I got values of 3 to 11 (average is 7). I would treat this negative much differently than a scene that was 5 to 9 -- still an average of 7. This is why an incident meter for me is next to useless.

Anyway, I exposed the redwood snags at 4 -- it was a 5 min exposure on FP4+ (at 125ASA) and I was willing to lose a little detail in the areas I measured at 3 (due to reciprocity failure of the film). In theory, the highlights fell on Zone XII.

I developed it in Ilford PQ Universal Developer, a fairly active developer -- 50 parts to 950 parts (1:19) in a Expert drum at 68F for about 8 minutes ("normal" development, is ~4 minutes) bumping up the highlights to perhaps XIV or so.

Made a very nice carbon print -- for fun, I used a sharpie on the glass part way through the exposure to maintain detail/texture in the darkest area of the image (inside a hollow log). I used an 8% Ammonium dichromate solution, diluted 1:3 with acetone (total volume of 20 ml).

A neg that only has a range of 4 or 5 stops I would use the developer at 1:9 and cook it a more.

The way I really bumped up the contrast was to use Kodak copy film in HC-110. A little too much development and I would get bullet proof highlights...some I could still print through.

I'll try some D-19 one of these days -- as a high contrast developer, it should help with those negs that only have a 5 stop range.

Hope this is of a little help.

PS...as a reference, I took another neg of the same snags right before, but with my boys in the scene. Exposed at 5 -- only a minute exposure, so less reciprocity failure to compensate for. I wanted to make a platinum print from it (part of a series), so it did not need the high contrast -- developed it 1:19 for 5 minutes instead of the 8 minutes of the other neg. Made a great platinum/palladium neg (no contrast agent needed). A scan of the pt print:

[ki6mf]

Some simple way to make more dense negatives are stronger agitation and if you use a diluted developer change the dilution level. If you use a spot meter and meter for the shadows vary development time, as stated above, to change contrast time.

A good tutorial on line is at http://www.jerryo.com/teaching.htm

[Ken Lee]

I have modified the title of this thread to better comply with Forum guidelines - which encourage a "professional" decorum.

[Brian Ellis]

Your header refers to making "very dense negatives." Your question asks how one would expose and develop to get the density "range" you want. To some extent they're two different questions. You increase overall density (shadows, mid-tones, and highlights) by exposure. You control density "range" by development.

So if all you want is an overall denser than normal negative just over-expose (relative to your normal exposure for a particular scene) by as many effective stops as you need. To increase the density range, over-develop (relative to your normal development time) by as long as you think you need to get the highlights (and, to a lesser extent, the mid-tones) denser than normal. Increased development time has little effect on the shadow areas because they're fully developed approximately a third of the way through the development time.

You obviously need to know what your "normal" exposure time would be for a particular scene and what your "normal" development time is before you can determine your increased exposure and development time. The Sunny 16 rule you mention is a crude way of determining a "normal" exposure and you could use the film manufacturer's suggested development time as a crude "normal" development time. Appropriate simple testing would allow you to be more precise as to your normal exposure and development times for a given scene and by how much you overexpose and overdevelop to obtain the negative you want.

[ic-racer]

Divide your target negative density range by the scene range to obtain the gamma you need for your film development.

So, if your scene is log 2 in range and you want log 3 on your negatiave then you need to process to a gamma of 1.5

[sanking]

You would expose for a carbon negative no differently than for any other process. My method would be to determine where I want textured detail in the shadows and take an incident meter reading at that spot,. You should never over-expose for carbon or for any other alternative process as it makes what are already very long exposures almost interminable.

To get the contrast you want, say a DR of log 3.0, you just develop the film much longer than would be normal for silver printing. With Pyrocat-MC and FP4+ I would suggest around 12-15 minutes with the 1+1+50 dilution with rotary processing at 70F.

I would give you precise data but I am traveling and don't have access to my WinPlotter files.

Sandy

[mdm]

Thank you for the replies.

My negatives are not dense enough for the exposure time that gets the best out of my tissue. Now I know why. 1:1:50 and continuous agitation.

I can see now how much of a time saver digital negatives would be and they are next on the list. I have no ambition to make big prints so really value the simplicity of a camera negative too.

Sorry to make work for you Ken. You are a very understanding lot, moderators.

[mdm]

I developed it in Ilford PQ Universal Developer, a fairly active developer -- 50 parts to 950 parts (1:19) in a Expert drum at 68F for about 8 minutes ("normal" development, is ~4 minutes) bumping up the highlights to perhaps XIV or so.

Thanks Vaughn, I had a look but am unable to get PQ Universal here, would have loved to try it as it clearly works for you. I will keep my eyes peeled.

I may try the Ilford distributor directly tomorrow.

Actually, it is similar to Ilford Multigrade Developer, which I have already. So Bobs your uncle.