A few doubts about a Kodak 2D 8x10

[cyberjunkie]

Hi all!
Having a great esteem for Jim Galli (i have already browsed most of his personal site, with all the experiments with vintage soft focus lenses), and knowing that he does most of his work with an old Eastman Kodak 2D 8x10, i sent him a PM, asking for a few advices about my freshly purchased camera.
I am reposting the great part of my PM, asking for suggestions from other forum members, with some experience with that camera.


I just won a Kodak 2D outfit on Ebay, for $330 plus shipment (that would account for about 40% of the total expense!).
Fortunately the camera comes equipped with a american 12" f/6.8 Dagor, on Compound, and comes complete with the extension rail, the tripod block, a Packard shutter fitted beside the lensboard, and one 8x10 film holder, plus a case and a few other things.
The price is not so bad, from what i understand, but the camera is quite overused, at least from what i get from the pictures. Fortunately all the hardware seems to be still there, and the bellows look in not-so-bad shape, albeit repaired in a few places with some tape.
I plan to disassemble the camera, have the wood parts cleaned and polished (and repaired, if needed), but i am not sure about the best way to repair the bellows, replacing the black tape (on red bellows!) with something a little more durable and more aestetically pleasing.
If you want to take a look at the camera, just do a quick search on Ebay for completed auctions, and you'ill find plenty of pictures of a Kodak 2D that just sold for $330, that's my new camera .
It looks more badly cared and dusted, than totally ruined.
About the Packard shutter, it's the model with two pistons, with two hoses that come out from the bottom of the front standard. The hoses were cut and must be replaced as soon as possible. I hope i will be able to find two of those metal screw-on fittings, made to fit the hose on both sides of a standard/lensboard. That would be a cleaner solution than sealing the two hoses with some black silicon.
I don't remember what's the function of the second cylinder, and if the Packard shutters made that way have the instant pin, or not.
I think that the most seasoned members from the USA know the answers.
I don't know much about those shutters (i have a couple of Silens, with a knob that allows to manually open the shutter, and keep it that way, if you use a lens fitted in a leaf shutter), so i don't know what's the correct operation when a lens in shutter is fitted to the lensboard of a 2D camera with a behind-the-lens Packard shutter.
How do you keep the Packard permanently in open position?
Do you have a quick answer for all my doubts about the Packard shutter? BTW, from what i see it's permanently fitted to the back of the lensboard, and can't be easily removed during a photographic session.

Another doubt: i have read that Deardorff and Kodak 2D lensboards are of the same size, but the former has no rounded corners, and it's a little thicker.
Having a Calumet C-1 at home (still not completely restored), i have a couple of metal Calumet lensboards, plus two wooden ones, that come with adapters to fit Sinar or Technika/Wista lensboards to a Deardorff camera (with 6x6" lensboards with rounded corners) or a Calumet C-1. That solution is very practical, and allows to mount nearly all my lenses, without removing them from their original boards.
I'd like to do the same with the Kodak 2D. Do you think that it would be easy to adapt Deardorff lensboards to my 2D? My idea, before actually seeing the camera, is to fit the lensboards housing with rounded corners, and put some felt behind, to allow for a tight fit of a slightly thinner board.
Practically speaking, i'd like to make a fixed on-camera adapter. What do you think?
During the work on the wooden parts, it would be nice to use the original back as a sample, to make a new "base" on which to fit a 5x7" Agfa Ansco back i have at home. Somewhere i have also a 4x5 Sinar back, but i am afraid that the minimum extension of the bellows would prevent its effective use. I'd need to mount at least a 90mm.
Have you tried a recessed board?
If yes, which is the minimum focal that you could focus at infinity, with your Kodak 2D?

Any suggestion, even unrelated to my questions, is warmly welcomed

have fun

CJ

[Peter De Smidt]

If you can afford it, I'd have Camera Bellows in the UK make you a new bellows. That way, you'll be good for decades with proper care. If you don't, the chance of developing a light leak at a very in opportune time is fairly high.

Making a 5x7 back shouldn't be too hard. It's a nice format.

[dng88]

My first one is also a 2D (and I also posted questions here about it as well). I got a Deardroff later. The lens board is interchangable to me (and in fact I use a few technica board so that the lens can also be used in my Tachihard 4x5). (You can get a wooden board with the adapter but you need some black tape; these board can be got from eBay).

Yours are actually better than mine, btw and I paid more even before shipping charge as far as I can recall.

[dsphotog]

I'll mention one thing that I like about the 2D.... You can fold it without removing the lens, so it can set up faster than a Deardorff. Plus it costs a lot less!
My free advice, try not to get buyers remorse until you try the thing out.
No one camera is perfect for every use..... Thats why there are so many.
Heck, try 'em all!

[John Jarosz]

Well, it looks pretty dirty to me. Simply cleaning the surface will do wonders for the appearance. You may not have to refinish it unless you're concerned about the aesthetics. I second the comment about getting a new bellows, that's where you should put the money.

The brass parts are in a normal state of oxidation for that vintage camera. You'll need a buffing wheel to break thru that surface it you want to make it bright & shiny.

I can't tell if you live in the US or not, but here we have a refinishing product called Formby's that is solvent based and is very good at removing old finishes without causing the wood to swell. This is because it does not use water. Soaking the parts in it for a few hours and then brushing off the stubborn bits will get you close to bare wood. A light sanding to smooth out the surface and you are ready for a finish. I've used tung oil on 3 2D's over the years. You can put on 2 or 3 coats for simple protection or many coats to get a high gloss. Depends on what you want. Taking off the finish in this way will make the camera appear lighter in tone (the D in 2D represents 'dark') so you see the mahogany grain.

The film holders are etrmely dirty. I'd make sure there's no mold in that case if you decide to use it. The case may also be an infinite source of dust and particles to get onto the film.

You can do as much or as little as you like. It's very close to being 'usable' right now. Have fun.

John

[John Jarosz]

If you have a bellows made, consider sending the old bellows to your vendor. He can use the existing frames and you'll have an easier installation of the new bellows. Or at the very leasy he take take measurements to use on his frames. Ask him.

john

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned two 2Ds and two Deardorffs. Lensboards for the so-called "military" model Deardorffs had square corners and they come up on ebay occasionally or you can have them made but your idea of using an adapter board seems better. I never had a need to use a recessed board on any of the four. I've also never used a Packard shutter and know nothing about them.

I had one of my Deardorffs disassembled and had the brass removed and repolished by a commercial company in that business. IIRC it cost quite a bit of money, something in the $300 - $400 range. I don't think I'd spend that kind of money to do that for a 2D. Of course if you can do all the work yourself that's a different matter. But if it's a functioning camera I'd be inclined to just clean it up as well as you can and use it after replacing the bellows.

Another way I found to spend money on these cameras was to have Richard Ritter add front tilt to one of my 2Ds. He did a very nice job and charged $250. That was about 8 years ago though, he may charge more today.

It sounds to me like you got a good price with the extension rail and tripod block included as long as the camera functions and the lens and shutter are o.k.. You should be able to replace the bellows for around $300 I would think, which means you'd have about $650 in the camera and lens.

I don't understand the purpose of replacing the base of the camera to fit a 5x7 back.

I don't think it's a big advantage to be able to store the camera with a lens on it unless you have only one lens. The time and space savings are minimal and if you have two or more lenses you may have to remove one and replace it with another to make a particular photograph, in which case you spend more time than if you had no lens on the camera to start with.

FWIW - very little - my general impression is that you're planning a lot of work and maybe spending a fair amount of money (especially if you replace the bellows as I think you should) to fit a square peg into a round hole, meaning that you might have been better off buying a camera that was already in the kind of shape and configuration you want and that served whatever your purposes are better than this one. Again though, if you can do the work yourself and enjoy that sort of thing it's a different matter. I can't and don't.

[John Koehrer]

If you're thinking of using the 5X7 as a reducing back, it would work fine. The base may add 4mm to the thickness so it really doesn't matter.
There's a product called "Never Dull" available that cleans old dirt & grime from polished metals very quickly, it is a cotton wadding impregnated with a solvent. You apply it simply by rubbing the surface with a cotton wad, wait until it glazes over & buff it. Just like waxing a car. Most auto parts stores carry it. I bought it at Wal-Mart & it's very inexpensive.
Formby's wood refinisher is very easy to use for the wood, apply it with steel wool & rub gently & the old finish comes right off. It may take a couple of applications but it's just time, no real elbow grease needed. I recently refinished a 5X7 Deardorff using these products & used varnish for the final steps. I'd suggest wiping the varnish on rather than brushing it's much smoother.
FWIW I've got a recessed Deardorff board for sale in the classified section.

[WalterE54]

David, you can fold up a 12" Dagor lens on the 'Dorff if you attach the lensboard in reverse...

[BradS]

Hi all!
Having a great esteem for Jim Galli (i have already browsed most of his personal site, with all the experiments with vintage soft focus lenses), and knowing that he does most of his work with an old Eastman Kodak 2D 8x10, i sent him a PM, asking for a few advices about my freshly purchased camera.
I am re-posting the great part of my PM, asking for suggestions from other forum members, with some experience with that camera.

.........

Any suggestion, even unrelated to my questions, is warmly welcomed

have fun

CJ

Did you not like the answer that Jim Galli gave?