Studio lighting for 8x10

[cyrus]

I'm surprised at the number of people who are using rather low-powered lighting for LF studio lighting. They can't all be shooting wide-open! What's going on? Even more surprised at the number of posts that use the WS as a measure of power without regard to the guide numbers.

ANyway, based on my calculations, any decent studio lighting for LF photography would come at a min cost of $5K for two heads (new.) Does this sound right?

[Mark Woods]

I spent about $4K for 4 Speedotron power packs: 3 - 2400 & 1 - 4800 ws and about a dozen heads. I'm going to trim the package to about 6 heads and 3 power packs. I already owned the stands and support, so your guesstimate is about right for cost, but not for quantity in my case. ;-) I like to shoot at F/64.

[erie patsellis]

New, probably about right. Then again, older Broncolor, Elinchrom and the like are going for next to nothing. Over a year, I accumulated 5 packs, 10 heads, modifiers, grids, etc., for well under $700. The only downside is that they are typically limited to a a 4 stop range, in 1/2 stop increments, so usage with digital is fairly limiting (unless you have some ND filters, which I use frequently).

[Capocheny]

Hi Cyrus,

It depends on what your photographing... for still life/product shooting, you can get away with lower-powered units by using multiple pops.

For portraiture, I suspect you'd need something with a bit more power than you can choose to use in the above situation. I don't do any portraiture photography so multiple pops have never been an issue for me.

I've been using Balcar packs (1 - 3200 & 1 - 2400 ws with 3 heads) for several years now and won't be expanding the kit.

As for cost, I bought my packs through a local store that was getting out of pro gear and they gave me a reasonably good deal on the kit.

Used gear on the auction site goes for next to nothing depending on what manufacturer they come from. But, buying used may mean you'll need to replace the capacitors sooner rather than later... especially if they come from a studio that heavily uses them.

Cheers

[jp]

You can get some very nice white lightning stuff for a lot less than $5k.

I have a pair of very old white lightning bucket shaped monolights, umbrellas, modifiers, stands, etc.. that I paid $400 for more than a decade ago and are still working fine. They are very weak in power output compared to the modern offerings, but they work for me as long as I don't have them too far from the subject. I would not be able to do a group shot at f32 for example on 8x10, but I can do a single person and have enough light as I can keep the umbrella(s) pretty close to the person and it won't be in the photo. This is with iso 100 film. If someone went to 400, they'd get a lot more flexibility from the underpowered cheap flash.

[sully75]

Don't want to thread highjack, but can someone list some models of older high quality lights to look out for on ebay? I'm less interested in the white lightning stuff than older elinchrom or broncolor.

Stuff that has a really strong modeling light would be awesome.

I look on ebay but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.

[cyrus]

To get real depth of field in LF studio, you need a LOT more power:

If you're a large-format film shooter (4x5 view camera) and you tend to use ISO 100 film at a typical ƒ-stop of ƒ/32, you need about 32 times the amount of light as if you're shooting at ƒ/5.6. That ƒ/5.6 might give sufficient depth of field for a digital shooter using a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II with a full-frame image sensor. In this example, the Canon shooter might choose 1,000 watt-seconds for the shot; the 4x5 shooter would need closer to 64,000.

Wow! This can't be right!

[erie patsellis]

Cyrus,
In your above example, I can't think of a single modifier or situation where 1,000 w/s would yield an aperture of f5.6, short of turning the head totally away from the subject and flagging any spill, relying on illuminating the space to light the subject. In my experience, for a typical softbox/scrim scenario in tabletop work, f5.6 would need somewhere around 100 to 200 w/s max. (depending on head/reflector/modifier efficiencies, etc...) Fresnels or direct illumination with heads/reflectors would cut that at least in half, likely 1/4. I can't think of a single situation in 20 years+ where I ever needed more than 8- 10,000 w/s in studio, and all of those were multi head shoots with very large objects.

With the Broncolor 304/404 era packs and heads, a 1600 w/s pack at full power will yield around f45-f64 or so with a good quality silver lined 2x3 softbox attached at 3' or so. Dual tube heads are an option, to gain an extra stop. Of course, film shooters also have the advantage of multi pop being an option.

The older packs do have their downsides, typically longer t.1 flash duration than the newer packs (a non issue for still lifes and such),and limited power selection, however since the Bron packs utilize cap switching to adjust power, color temperature and duration is very consistent across the entire range, something that has only recently been at the fore of "modern" packs lists of features.


Sully, the broncolor heads can use either a 250w quartz modeling light (candelabra base, I think ETX sounds close) or a 500w quartz modeling light, just be sure that a 6.3A fuse is installed in the head fuse holder (and keep some spares, when a quartz halogen light dies, it typically shorts). While high power modeling lights can be nice, with color critical work, it's a good idea to shut them off before exposure, as you can get some funky lighting induced crossover due to the difference in color temps of the two light sources. Two things to be very careful of with the older Bron equipment, make sure the heads and tubes work, a replacement tube for a universal head costs around $600 from Bron, and make sure you get a proper sync cable with the pack, unless you want to convert the pack to use the typical 1/4" jacks in use today. Bron used a wonderful, extremely reliable (mil spec/aerospace quality) Fischer Scientific connnector (similar to the Lemo connectors used on early Mark Levinson audio equipment) and just the connector is an outrageous amount of money.

[Ben Syverson]

Hahaha...

I recently did an 8x10 shoot on location with one Nikon SB-24 speedlight through an umbrella.

In the studio, I use a dinky Elinchrom 400 Ws monolight. I once went to an antique shop, and they had two of those strobes in the back to shoot stuff for eBay. They have me beat.

I shoot almost exclusively at f/9 and f/11. I don't want infinite depth of field. I don't like diffraction. f/64 can eat me.

There are plenty of rational reasons to buy expensive lights (mainly tabletop and fashion), but beware of gear lust and magic bullets...

[Armin Seeholzer]

the Canon shooter might choose 1,000 watt-seconds for the shot; the 4x5 shooter would need closer to 64,000.

Sounds a bit to much in my expierence only if you want burn them away you need 64'000 WS. I Work normaly at f 11-22 only for groups f32 and I get with a 1000 WS head f 45 with a umbrella at 2m distance, so my question is what Ws do have in USA the same as in EU;--)))) Outside with a no reflective seeling you need really much power but only in the night! Maybe there was one zero to much on your post because with 6400 Ws then you have e very good setting for 8x10 und 100 ASA Film. If you want use 25 ASA film then you really need about 20'000-30'000 Ws for work very fast!
But your customers will be blind after this session;--))))

Cheers Armin