Some Soft Focus Lens Sales Information

[CCHarrison]

Steve, you are correct about the "C" not having the Diffusion of Focus features. In 1860, Dallmeyer produced his first Petzvals. The "B" model (known as the "Quick-Acting Portrait Lens" ) was first, followed by the "C" model ("Extra-Quick Acting Portrait Lens") in 1861. It was until 1866 that Dallmeyer started selling Petzvals with the Diffusion of Focus feature (and were named "Patent-Portrait" lenses), but the C model was never made with this feature- only the B, A, D, models.

[Steven Tribe]

Question is why?

- Couldn't get the this speed with the redesigned rear pair?
- Low sales of the C not worth the design investment? -or-
- Children are "fuzzy" enough without including this feature - snapshots rather than portrait art?

[CCHarrison]

Not sure. Although a couple of things to remember, this model was very expensive (3x more than the B model) and the largest C model only covered 4x5 inches. So perhaps expense, demand, and/or simply the fact that these produced relatively small images and therefore difffusion was less necessary.



Dan

[eddie]

cyberjunkie, yeah, what mark says, plus I wasn't considering cine or 35mm lenses, just LF photography. Because I have a ton of 35mm lenses that are faster than F2.0, like sonnars and just about any "Fast 50" speed lens. It's not the same thing on small format. But if you know a Photographic Petzval longer than 150mm and faster than F3.1, what have you got on your list? Huh? Tell me...huh?!

uuummmm? i got a 3c! 8 inch......240mm...... nah ! nah nah nah nah!

[Amedeus]

305mm Kodak Portrait lens in barrel on lensboard for $372 (121047312523)

Nice looking TAYLOR - HOBSON COOKE PORTRAIT ANASTIGMAT 12 3/4 INCH SERIES II F/4.5 No. 120514, knuckle version, for $1800 (230907520415)

Hermagis Eidsocope 150mm in shutter for $835, private sale

[cyberjunkie]

cyberjunkie, yeah, what mark says, plus I wasn't considering cine or 35mm lenses, just LF photography. Because I have a ton of 35mm lenses that are faster than F2.0, like sonnars and just about any "Fast 50" speed lens. It's not the same thing on small format. But if you know a Photographic Petzval longer than 150mm and faster than F3.1, what have you got on your list? Huh? Tell me...huh?!

I reported the first two lenses that came to my mind.
You are right, one was a cine lens, and the other was the Gottingen Werke (ISCO), which is not cut for waterhouse stops, so probably is a projection petzval, but in absence of a catalogue, we can't be 100% sure.
I can say it with good reasons:
i have another unmarked petzval, very big in size, and for sure quite fast, which has no WH slot, but does not look at all like a projection lens.
The lens has a very deep sunshade (not needed in a projection lens), is 25/30cm tall (going by memory), large diameter, and short FL (about 210mm, which makes it quite fast... soon i have to check the exact speed).
It was made by Voigtlander between early 1850 and early 1860 (going by memory again, i am writing from my tablet), because it is signed "... Wien und Braunschweig" in two glasses. It is different from all the Voigtlander petzvals i have seen in picture.
AFAIK at that time there was no differentiation between photographic and projection petzvals, the Projectos were made about two decades later.

The Voigtlander was one of the (very) few examples i had in mind, but i refrained from citing all of them because i don't have the exact speed, or because i already reported a similar specimen (other than the post-WWII Galileo, i own a few Koritska pre-war petzvals with f/2.1 and f/2.2 speed, clearly proj optics).

Frankly i don't get your critics.
Both lenses i mentioned have a place here.
NO 50mm, NO small or medium format lenses, NO microscope petzvals, JUST petzval formula optics which cover more than 6.5x9, albeit one would slightly vignette on 9x12, and the other would give a good amount of swirl...
Today i gave another example, and there are at least two other old petzvals (both british-made) which i deem to be faster than f/3, but i don't know how much.
If somebody completes/revises something i have said or written, i am happy to learn something new.
No need to get heated if i am giving you a couple of examples.
Believe me, nobody is trying to attack you or question your competence. There is no need to backtrack to a safer ground changing f/3.7 in f/3.1, and placing an ex-novo limit of 150mm.
I get your point, and i agree with you in global terms.
I just dare to object that there are few exceptions.
Come on!


P.S.
I asked for help about the identification of the big Voigtlander petzval, on this forum and elsewhere, with zero success.
The thread is wrongly titled because i thought it was an Hermagis, before examining the lens (which was incredibly difficult to open).
When i'm done with the restoration, i will post pictures and quotes.

P.S. 2
If i haven't been clear enough: i must agree that old petzvals are quite rare in speeds greater than f/3.8, especially the longer focals.
Usually i buy lenses that would cover whole plate or larger. With long FL's, a speed of f/4 is already good.
As everything started with a Dallmeyer "C", here is an ad-hoc example: the B&L copies of Dallmeyer "Patent Portrait" petzvals were made in f/4 and f/5 speeds, and even at f/5 an 8x10" portrait lens isn't small at all.
I have a 12" f/4, originally sold for 5x7" and possibly whole plate, which is NOT a feather-weight!
Though smaller petzvals, like some CdV ones, were made by some manufacturers in much larger apertures.


have fun

CJ

[Amedeus]

uuummmm? i got a 3c! 8 inch......240mm...... nah ! nah nah nah nah!

Is it 8" or is it 240mm ... two different things ... ;-)

[eddie]

Is it 8" or is it 240mm ... two different things ... ;-)

yeah yeah yeah....public school math....dont you know nuttin? how about 200mm? better?.....now where did i leave that damn slide rule....not worth the money!

[Jim Galli]

305mm Kodak Portrait lens in barrel on lensboard for $372 (121047312523)

Nice looking TAYLOR - HOBSON COOKE PORTRAIT ANASTIGMAT 12 3/4 INCH SERIES II F/4.5 No. 120514, knuckle version, for $1800 (230907520415)

Hermagis Eidsocope 150mm in shutter for $835, private sale

Thanks for all the hard work keeping up with this stuff. Wish I'd gotten the Kodak.

I consider the 150 Eidy the penultimate soft focus lens for 4X5. imesho that is.

[Amedeus]

Thanks for all the hard work keeping up with this stuff. Wish I'd gotten the Kodak.

I consider the 150 Eidy the penultimate soft focus lens for 4X5. imesho that is.

You're welcome ...

The Kodak was nice and a great deal. Eidoscope 150mm is on my wishlist ... I've adopted the 190mm Eidoscope on my Mamiya 645AFD and very happy with the results ... looking for shorter focus SF llens ... P&S Gillies would be nice too ...

Voigtlander Universal Heliar 30cm f/4.5 Variable Soft Focus for $1,247 ... (261149906171)

SOM BERTHIOT Eidoscope 275mm f/4.5 for $1,100 ... (261152156622)

Wollensak Verito Diffused Lens 18in f=4 with Studio 5 shutter on Packard Shutter for $1,405 (321051125960) on lensboard with extra Packard shutter.