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Thread: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

  1. #11

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by vizion View Post
    Have you really nailed colour profiling for each of the following:
    scanner, screen, processing software, paper, printer, to your working environment?
    Do you have a consistent way of resolving differences in dynamic range?
    So you use colour profiles that reflect your dynamic range expectations for printing?
    Are your papers suitable for the images you are trying to print?
    How about dealing with the tonal differences for each of your lenses?
    There are so many challenges.
    David
    David, everything is color managed and my profiles are fine. What I'm missing is the crispness & subtile tones of a contact print.

    I believe I can get closer, I've seen better inkjet prints.

    bob

  2. #12

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob McCarthy View Post
    I'm not sure I follow Sandy, why not directly contact print the original....

    bob
    Your thread asks the question, Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print?

    If you contact print the original negative you have an analogue print.

    If you scan the negative, correct it in Photoshop, print an LVT negative, and make a contact print from that, you have a digital print. Or a hybrid print as some might prefer.

    If you simply scan the negative and make a print from this file with an inkjet printer you will be limited to the resolution of the output device, which would be somewhere between 360 dpi - 480 spi. That is good enough, in fact better than most eyes can see, but still well below the 2000 spi or so in the original negative.

    Sandy King
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  3. #13

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by vizion View Post
    Have you really nailed colour profiling for each of the following:
    scanner, screen, processing software, paper, printer, to your working environment?
    Do you have a consistent way of resolving differences in dynamic range?
    So you use colour profiles that reflect your dynamic range expectations for printing?
    Are your papers suitable for the images you are trying to print?
    How about dealing with the tonal differences for each of your lenses?
    There are so many challenges.
    David
    David, everything is color managed and my profiles are fine. What I'm missing is the crispness & subtile tones of a contact print.

    I believe I can get closer, I've seen better inkjet prints.

    bob

  4. #14

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    48

    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob McCarthy View Post
    David, everything is color managed and my profiles are fine. What I'm missing is the crispness & subtile tones of a contact print.

    I believe I can get closer, I've seen better inkjet prints.

    bob
    Bob, Piezography K7 can do contact sharpness at great enlargement provided the original 8x10 is drum scanned. But this is only because K7 is not using Epson dithering to make shades out of darker inks. K7 instead, uses lighter inks at extremely high frequency dithering. So rather than having the a mixture of ink dots and paper white to assimilate lighter tones (Epson ABW), K7 is instead pure ink - and therefore gives the result of much higher resolution. There is a video of closeups of Epson ABW vs Piezography K7 dithering here:

    Piezography vs Epson

    Even though Piezography can pull greater detail even out of lower res pics - you can not possibly obtain contact sharpness unless you have a very high quality scan with enough optical resolution.

    Regardless of what all the experts are saying who are pushing CCD scanners for the major manufacturers, the realm of highest standard still belongs to the PMT drum scanner. You might want to locate a professional drum scanner operator - get one made - and see if its worth the expense in order to get what you wish to achieve. Sharpness in CCDs is usually the result of post image processing. Drum scanners naturally pull detail - so start off with the drum scan without any sharpening and go slightly from there.

    For Piezography through our K7 profiles - we would normally scan at significantly higher resolution and allow the driver to interpolate the over-res. Most people will say its impossible - but we've been providing the solution to our large format film customers with K7 for more than six years now. Look at the video link to see that result versus Epson printer driver. But for color printing, the Epson driver is not going to interpolate into additional printer dots - no matter how much resolution you give it - so 360dpi is our max at output size for color.

    I hope this encourages you to try a drum scan of your 8x10 film.

    Incidentally - can you tell us what you have been scanning on?

    Regards,

    Jon Cone
    Piezography at InkjetMall

  5. #15

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Jon,

    I'm scanning on a Screen Cezanne, typically wet mounting the negative.

    The sharpness of the scan is light years better than any Epson and superior to Nikon CCD scanners at 4000 dpi.

    I think its easily as good as a tango I have used for comparison.

    I drank the Cone kool-aid before, but came up short on ordering as I wanted a glossy or at worse a semigloss finish. I have been testing on a HP 3 black/grey ink printer (ignoring the color inks) but would prefer an all black/grey ink setup for the Epson I already own (7600).

    Things in this industry change quickly, so certainly I'm not up with your latest thinking.

    Bob

  6. #16
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Why try and copy something else? Why not exploit digital's pixilated nature and its crusty edges rather than try to force it to be something that it is not.
    For example, you can make a synthesizer sound almost exactly like a piano, but what is the point. Why not create something unique?

  7. #17

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    no.

  8. #18

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Your thread asks the question, Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print?

    If you contact print the original negative you have an analogue print.

    If you scan the negative, correct it in Photoshop, print an LVT negative, and make a contact print from that, you have a digital print. Or a hybrid print as some might prefer.

    If you simply scan the negative and make a print from this file with an inkjet printer you will be limited to the resolution of the output device, which would be somewhere between 360 dpi - 480 spi. That is good enough, in fact better than most eyes can see, but still well below the 2000 spi or so in the original negative.

    Sandy King
    I'm sorry for the confusion, what I intended to say; is there a scanned/injet print process which at 1:1 scan to print resolution that would creat the absolute optimal digital (inkjet) print.

    Maybe I'm now understanding that with the current output technology there is no reason to scan over 480 dpi leaving much detail which can not be put on paper.

    What is the maximum resolution of a wet print - greater than 480 dpi??

    bob

  9. #19

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob McCarthy View Post
    Jon,

    I'm scanning on a Screen Cezanne, typically wet mounting the negative.

    The sharpness of the scan is light years better than any Epson and superior to Nikon CCD scanners at 4000 dpi.

    I think its easily as good as a tango I have used for comparison.

    I drank the Cone kool-aid before, but came up short on ordering as I wanted a glossy or at worse a semigloss finish. I have been testing on a HP 3 black/grey ink printer (ignoring the color inks) but would prefer an all black/grey ink setup for the Epson I already own (7600).

    Things in this industry change quickly, so certainly I'm not up with your latest thinking.

    Bob
    Yes - we went glossy and air-dried glossy awhile ago - and its much higher standard still. But do not think of it as kool-aid!!! lol

    But you are drum scanning and can't get tack sharp...do you see tack sharp when you look at pixels on screen at pixel size?

    Jon

  10. #20

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    Re: Is there a digital equivalent to a contact print

    Quote Originally Posted by joncone@cone-editions.com View Post
    Yes - we went glossy and air-dried glossy awhile ago - and its much higher standard still. But do not think of it as kool-aid!!! lol

    But you are drum scanning and can't get tack sharp...do you see tack sharp when you look at pixels on screen at pixel size?

    Jon
    Does it require an overspray or are you using a glop position.

    I am perfect on screen, getting from screen to paper is the challenge.

    I'll check out your site, does this newer technology apply to the older printers, I have a virtually unused 7600. Used just enough to keep the ink lines/manifold clear and flowing. I'd like to dedicate it to B&W if I can use Harmon or Silk Gold. There may be newer papers with good sharpness and a deep black.

    bob

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