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Thread: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

  1. #1
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    From what I can tell, lens elements mounted in a Compound III7 shutter (3-X Tube 7) (cell thread 55.69 40 t.p.i) won't just screw into a modern #3 shutter (cell thread M56.0x0.75) without a 'wallet lightening' trip to SK Grimes and back.

    Right?

  2. #2

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Right. But Compounds can often be repaired.

  3. #3

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    A rejuvenated Compound is the sweetest shutter of all.
    Wilhelm (Sarasota)

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Allow me to step in with a doubt about this same subject. A while back I was able to get me a Heliar 210mm without a shutter. I found an article on Photo.net in which seņor Galli recommended a Compound 3 fitting.
    I received my first 5x7 Sinar camera + extras this week. Among the extras, a strange plastic lens board with a threaded opening with "Symmar 240" hand written on it. Upon asking the seller he said he, in fact, used it to mount a Symmar 240mm.

    I though, what the hell, I'll try if any of my shutterless lenses fit here. The Heliar screws in
    I am a bit confused as why this is possible. The Symmar should mount on a Copal 3, no?

  5. #5
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Ok, I checked out the Compound Shutter Overhaul info on SK Grimes site. Looks like it can be serviced easily. I'll not let that shutter get in the way of finding the lens I want.

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Quote Originally Posted by ramiroelena View Post
    I am a bit confused as why this is possible. The Symmar should mount on a Copal 3, no?
    Early Symmar 240mm where aviable in three different shutters: Compur 3, Compur 2 and Compound II 5.

  7. #7

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    The 240/5.6 Symmar was originally sold in a Compur II 5/2. When the rim set Compurs and Compounds went out of production (around 1970) the cells were fitted into adapters for Copal 3 threads. Mostly you see them in a Copal 3, but also a Compur 3, Compur-Electronic 3 and Compur-Electronic 5FS. Do you know the age of the Heliar? If it was produced after 1969 then it may have been produced with a Copal 3 thread too.

  8. #8
    cyberjunkie's Avatar
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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Quote Originally Posted by ramiroelena View Post
    A while back I was able to get me a Heliar 210mm without a shutter. I found an article on Photo.net in which seņor Galli recommended a Compound 3 fitting.
    I have the same 4.5/210 Heliar on Compound 3.
    But i'm not sure at all if it's the original configuration or not.
    What's amazing is the perfect functionality of the Compound!
    Yes, that heavy, backward-looking, black shutter, that looks a nice fit for old collectible cameras, not for perfectly usable picture-taking devices.
    But my personal experience tells that, after well more than 15 years of neglect, when i took out my LF equipment, the only shutter that was still perfectly functional was, guess which one, the Compound!
    All the Copals and Compurs we malfunctioning. Some more and some less, all had some problems with the "retarded" speeds. Be it just the 1sec., or plain stuck open, that long time without clicking took its toll over my shutters, even if a few where professionally cleaned some time before storing them.
    The only two clockwork shutters that were still perfectly operating were two Seikoshas belonging to a Mamiya Super 23, strictly not LF lenses, but practically the same thing. Must be said that the two lenses, a 75mm and a tele 150mm, were new stock when purchased, and practically never used after that. So maybe it's not a suprise that they could better stand the passing of time.
    What's more interesting is that the Compound, alone between true 4x5 and 5x7 lenses, was the only one that showed no signs of being off, even with slower shutter speeds.
    I guess that it has to do with the operational differences between the Compound and the other shutters. The former is a pneumatic device, and if the piston keeps the pressure, it should work weel even if a lot of time has passed.
    I love the damped "ti-tock" sound that you hear when the shutter is tripped.
    Maybe that peculiar sound is caused also by the paper leafs, while the others have metallic ones.
    I'd love to own a second one, but i am afraid that the threads would be non-standard, and today having two adapter rings custom-made for you is quite expensive, so it would defy the advantage of buying a cheaper shutter instead of an expensive Compur/Copal.
    I am not experienced enough to know in advance which lenses would fit, and which are better suited for a standard modern shutter.
    I have seen the table on SK Grimes web site, but it's partial to US lenses and shutters, and many important ones are missing.
    I haven't found anything else about the same subject. If you know about any other reference available on the Web, please post the URL. I'm sure it would be very interesting for many of us.

    have fun

    CJ

  9. #9

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    Incomplete, but one has to be happy with what volunteers do voluntarily: http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique..._centraux.html

  10. #10

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    Re: Compound Shutter to modern shutter...No go??

    My Heliar looks new, I don't have the Lens Vademecum so I can't tell by the serial number (6939717).
    BlueLemon had a Compound 3 for sale but I missed it (I had nice seats for the game FCBarcelona). Now I am not sure I need a Compound or a Copal so, for 5x7 I should probably go for a Sinar Shutter.

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