Fake Schneider lens?

[Songyun]

Credit where credit is due though - damn good job of faking the Schneideritis...

[Lee Christopher]

Very weird. Under the "Lens by Germany" line there is another one starting with "Product by.." and the last part is not legible. This seems to imply they bought lenses from Schneider and they were then assembled in Korea ?!

It still doesn't make sense to me to copy, counterfeit, or fake a) specifically a large format lens with a decidedly small market and not much collecting going on, at least compared to, say, 35mm Leitz and Zeiss glass, and b) a lens as common as a Symmar! A Biogon 75mm or an Apo-Lanthar fake would have made a bit more sense.

Perhaps it was by someone who loves the idea of LF or LF gear, or just a specialist 'entrepreneur' looking at untapped markets?

[Lee Christopher]

Credit where credit is due though - damn good job of faking the Schneideritis...

Err ... maybe that WAS real?

[Arne Croell]

Err ... maybe that WAS real?

maybe..lets spin this a bit further - assume some Korean company bought a bunch of coated and edge painted lens elements from Schneider, likely leftover lenses when they switched from the Symmar-S to the Apo-Symmar and assembled them in their own mounts just for sale on the home market? That would explain the Schneideritis (the edge painting that lifts off in spots) as this would have been done by Schneider; if they were Symmar-S lens elements that would explain the MC label and look and the black Copal since now we are talking later 1980's. Why is not named Symmar-S? Maybe Schneider did not allow it, to keep them from selling it elsewhere? This is all pure speculation of course...

[walter23]

I have seen a similar lens on Chinese forum. It was believed to be a Korean knock off. If you look carefully on the first image. The letter printed on the barrel is NOT "lens made in Germany" which is how Schneider would print.

But it has schneideritis!

[Mike1234]

No... that's chinaritis!!

[Arne Croell]

Back home now, I pulled out the Symmar, Symmar-S, and Apo-Symmar lenses in my collection (210mm, not 150 though) and had another long look at those pictures in the ebay ad. The mounting style of the lens elements and the retainer rings in the cell, the taper of the back cell, the size relation of the front and back cells and the coating colors definitely make me think this is a rebadged multicoated Symmar-S, it all fits perfectly - plus the fact that I can't get my head around the notion of forging a lens like this, it does not make any sense to me. My Symmar-S also has the very same Schneideritis specks shown in the pictures, whereas both my Symmar and Apo-Symmar don't show it. Given the mounting similarities I suspect that Schneider at some point sold unlabeled Symmar-S lens cells (not just elements as I mentioned above) to some company that then relabeled them in clumsy English: the double labeling of "Lens by Germany" and "Product by ..." would corroborate that.

[Songyun]

Back home now, I pulled out the Symmar, Symmar-S, and Apo-Symmar lenses in my collection (210mm, not 150 though) and had another long look at those pictures in the ebay ad. The mounting style of the lens elements and the retainer rings in the cell, the taper of the back cell, the size relation of the front and back cells and the coating colors definitely make me think this is a rebadged multicoated Symmar-S, it all fits perfectly - plus the fact that I can't get my head around the notion of forging a lens like this, it does not make any sense to me. My Symmar-S also has the very same Schneideritis specks shown in the pictures, whereas both my Symmar and Apo-Symmar don't show it. Given the mounting similarities I suspect that Schneider at some point sold unlabeled Symmar-S lens cells (not just elements as I mentioned above) to some company that then relabeled them in clumsy English: the double labeling of "Lens by Germany" and "Product by ..." would corroborate that.

Arne,
If Schneider won't allow them use the label Symmar-S, why would they allow them use Symmar? I mean they can use Symar, Symmer, Summer, whatever they like to use.

[Arne Croell]

Arne,
If Schneider won't allow them use the label Symmar-S, why would they allow them use Symmar? I mean they can use Symar, Symmer, Summer, whatever they like to use.

The plain Symmar name was maybe not as problematic in competing with Schneider-badged lenses when Schneider themselves were selling the Symmar-S or the Apo-Symmar? Or they used it without permission after they already had the cells? I don't know. Does anybody know if Schneider lenses were officialy sold in S. Korea in the late 1970's/early 1980's?

Obviously all of this is speculation...

[rdenney]

Is it possible that this is an older Symmar that was recoated (maybe only the front element) and with the barrel painted and engraved? I can picture the barrel as being chrome, making it an early Symmar. If they removed the retaining ring on the front cell (which is where the label resides on Symmar-Convertible-era lenses) and replaced it with a generic ring after applying a colorful coating to the front element, and then painted the outer barrel black, they would be able to engrave through the paint the label we see. It would be a real Symmar, with real Schneideritis, and a way for a small optical shop that might make, say, cheapie binoculars to make a quality camera lens with very little investment.

I have a 180mm Symmar Convertible and I ought to look at it to compare the barrel shape.

What I can't figure is why the price went so high.

Rick "who paid less than half that for the 180" Denney