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Thread: Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

  1. #11

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    As another cautionary note: don't mistake practising the Zone System for Photography. It ain't.

    I got so obsessed with testing materials that after a while testing of materials was all I did. One day, I woke up to the fact that I was using it as an excuse not to think and feel and shoot. You see, doing photography was too damn hard. I was happier playing around with materials and fooling myself and those not in the know that I was a photographer.

    Don't fall into that trap. Know what the spirit of the Zone System is and not the letter.

  2. #12

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    So many answers so many books. If you've got a spot meter and a simplified densitomemter set up, you have all the tools. What you need to do is to get a stepwedge and expose a film so you get at least 2-3 clear steps (base+fog)when developed at what you consider your usual time/temp. At this exposure time run about 4 more films and develop + and- 10% and 20% off your "normal". Read with the densitometer and plot curves. With these you can establish a true normal Contrast Index, EI for that film/Dev and =/- development. Another easier way to get EI is to use a range of exposures of a grey card 2 stops over and 2 stops under in 1/2 stop increments that your meter suggests. Develop normaly and find which frame gives you a reading of .1 over base+fog. Adjust your meter EI accordingly Use these numbers while taking real pictures, keep detailed notes and see what negatives give you a good print on whatever paper/grade you like.Adjust accordingly. With refernce to the Arista light. Get a V-54 "bulb" and run tests with the stepwedge to see how the filter #'s coorelate to graded papers- because they don't!!eg.my #2 is equivalent to graded #3 Now go out and have fun and take some classes. Howard Bond and John Sexton's courses come to mind. Howard's Zone system course is perfect. George

  3. #13

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    I would recommned to you the Zone system craftbook by John Charles Woods, it is a simple easy to read book where a lot of the information is explained in a simple concise manner. As to BTZS I found it to make something that is very simpe very complicated, but that is my opinion, many people swear by this method, even some very acomplished photographers like Arentz. I think that you will find there is no "magic" way to do this, but to photograph and gain experience. The books help to understand what is going on, but there is no substitute to being out there making negatives. Good luck and I hope you enjoy LF as much as I have.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    So. California
    Posts
    191

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    Zone VI Workshop by Fred Picker, very simple. Pat

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    21

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    I agree with Jorge about the BTZS being an overcomplication. Of course, some people think that ANY zone system is too much to deal with, but like Neil Poulsen said, the point is to produce a predictable printing situation. That can't be done consistently without effort. Everyone sets out on this path and decides where to camp out, but don't let the worry that you haven't found the RIGHT system yet keep you from making photographs. Your experience with your own equipment and darkroom procedures is your best teacher.

  6. #16

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    Russell,

    Ask yourself this question: Do you engage in photography to play with the aparatus and dwell on the esoterics of technique or do you have a personal vision that you would like to communicate with others?

    If your interest is in the acquisition, possession, operation and technicalities of the equipment and materials then you don't have a problem - read all of the books mentioned & more and between reading bouts get out there and test. Few things will give you the heartfelt satisfaction of a perfectly exposed and developed set of negs of an out-of-focus grey card ... and you'll be able to astound your associated by being able to repeat the production of this wonder time and time again. You will not be alone; techno boffins abound in numerous and vociferous gaggles. Have fun with them.

    On the other hand, if it is your ambition to communicate your ideas and attitudes to others, or just yourself, through the photographic medium then do as some others have suggested and follow the KISS rule. Keep it simple, stupid.

    Go to the source: Ansel Adams 'The Negative'. Materials and equipment has changed in the years since AA was scattered atop his mountain but the principles of exposure and development of which he exponded have not. I have been engaged in this craft since 1965 and have read many, many books that have tried to expand on or simplify Ansel's information. The unadulterated source is still the best starting point. The only other book that I found worthwhile is 'The New Zone System Manual' (White - Zakia - Lorenz) which discusses varying developer dilution to adjust mid-tones. But even that book is for later.

    First: get 'The Negative' - determine your personal Exposure Index for your chosen film (only 1 to start with) and the development time to render Zone VIII as Tone VIII on paper THROUGH YOUR ENLARGER.

    Second: get Ansal's 'Examples - The Making of 40 Photographs' because in it he expands on the most frequently mis-used element of the Zone System - 'Pre-Visualisation'. To know what he felt at the time of exposure and to understand his reasoning for implementing the techniques that he did is worth a fortnight of being bent over a densitometer.

    The choice is yours. Go for it! in whichever of the two schools you lean towards.

    WG

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 1997
    Location
    Baraboo, Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,697

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. There's only one zone system. Different people have adapted it to their personal needs in different ways and once you learn the zone system you too may make some variations in its application (e.g. while the common recommendation is to place the darkest shadows in which you want detail on zone III, many people have found that this leads to underexposed negatives and so they place those shadows on Zone IV instead; or while the common recommendation is to place the brightest highlights in which you want detail on Zone VII, many people place them on Zone VIII or higher). But these kind of differences don't represent something different from the zone system, they're just different ways of applying it. So I think any decent book will work fine for you. The zone system is simplicity itself - once you've done the testing. With respect to "Beyond the Zone System" - Phil Davis has said many times that he regrets coining the phrase "Beyond the Zone System" since his ideas and testing methods are based on the zone system, they aren't a substitute for it as the title "Beyond the Zone System" incorrectly implies. I've attended two of his workshops and read the book several times. It's an excellent book and his testing methods are much quicker and easier than standard zone system testing methodology but IMHO the book is too advanced to be used as a starter zone system book. Some of the other books people have mentioned here would, again in my opinion, be better.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  8. #18

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    I agree that AA's books The Negative and Examples are excellent sources. AA explains the Zone System in a very straightfoward manner and does not get overly technical with it. There is a separate appendix that gets into sensitometry which is somewhat important in first doing the film testing but in the end you will find that there are variables that will be out of your hands (call it Mother Nature). After using the system for a while you will probably find that being overly precise by doing graphs and charts as some spouse as important will lead to boredom. The point of the Zone System is to make beautiful photographs, not to plot how a certain film-developer-paper combination will look on a chart !

    Examples shows and explains how AA made some of his photographs and he goes so far as to even talk about his mistakes and what he probably should have done, this is how one learns.

  9. #19

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    Rus:

    I endorse 100% Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop. I found it the best source, and his examples of variations in exposure were a surprise to me.

    BUT, even St. Anselmo could distinguish the Aspens from the forest behind. All this jazz is just a means to an end. Spend one or two days on getting your film speed and developing time down with one standard film/dev combination (TriX and HC 110 or Xtol), then shoot. I always take one shot at the indicated reading and one more at one stop over, to accomodate the slop factor.

    Remember reciprocity failure and bellow extension factors. The real work will come in the movements and fully exploiting them to make it all worthwhile.

    Then after you've mastered all the tecnical stuff, when you have big negs, try Platinium or Palladium/Platinum printing for a real revelation.

    I hope you have not been overloaded with optoin from this post.

    Cheers

  10. #20

    Ready for the"Zone System"--but which one?

    I'll chime in as a LF photographer of a bit more than a year now (and SF for 25 year). I found BTZS quite useful, but I simplified everything by assuming an "average paper". This is where the "slop" in the system is critical. While Davis is correct that the range of the paper should ideally be matched with the film, unless you have a large freezer filled with that paper, can you really be confident that you will be printing on that paper emulsion? Since I want to use my negatives decades from now (maybe even scanned, etc.) I strive to create average good negatives and ignore discussions of tuning for individual papers. Contact printing and the like are a different matter of course...

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