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Thread: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

  1. #1

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    Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    Hi all,

    Hypothetical question for anyone who uses this lens:
    If you were to shoot an image with the SSXL150 onto 8x10 using NO camera movements, using a middling aperture, say f22, and focussing for 6m-infinity (a typical landscape), would you get falloff at the corners of your negative?

    In other words, is the center filter just for tricky movements or shooting wide open where you use the outer portions of the image circle, or is it an everyday requirement?

    Thanks for reading!

  2. #2

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    Yes it has fall off. That is why they made the filter. On 810 you will see more of it.

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uri Auerbach View Post
    If you were to shoot an image with the SSXL150 onto 8x10 using NO camera movements, using a middling aperture, say f22, and focussing for 6m-infinity (a typical landscape), would you get falloff at the corners of your negative?

    In other words, is the center filter just for tricky movements or shooting wide open where you use the outer portions of the image circle, or is it an everyday requirement?
    Every lens has falloff from the center to the edges. But the Super-Symmar XL Aspheric has less falloff as a lens without an aspherical element. So one needs only a center filter with very critcal subjects like an even illuminated wall. Also the center filter needs at least f16, so wide open is no option.

    BTW I've never used a center filter with my "long" SA's, the SA 165mm has the same image circle as the Super-Symmar XL Aspheric 150mm. Of course, the SA has a little bit smaller angele of view.

    Peter

  4. #4
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    Lots of subjects look good with a little fall off. I used a 47mm lens on a 4x5 without a center filter. Before using it, I was worried about fall off. It didn't bother me a bit on the slides.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  5. #5

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    That lens has masses of available shift even on 8x10. I would be surprised if you needed a centre filter at infinity with f22 and no tilts or shifts.

    But you should remember that all lenses have falloff from the centre outwards. But when you put neg in the enlarger the enlarger lens has falloff too. So with a negative, the enlarger lens cancels out the taking lens falloff to a certain extent. But if you are scanning to print digitally, then....

  6. #6

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    With a 75mm on 4x5 (21% extra coverage versus 19% extra with the 150 on 8x10) I only feel the need for a CF with transparency film, with neg, the amount of falloff doesn't bother me. But I always use one on my 55mm.

    Try a test sheet before you buy!

  7. #7

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    If you shoot a higher contrast film / N++ development etc, you may find you want a center filter if fall off bothers you. If you like fall off, you may not mind the 150 w/o filter.

  8. #8

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    There is no hypothetical answer. It depends on you, what you will shoot and what you will do after you shoot.
    If you are shooting negatives you can burn and dodge to even it out. If you are shooting chromes then you can't.
    If you are shooting indoors you can overlight the edge and corners, if you are shooting outside then you probably can't, unless you are on a movie set.
    If you are shooting scenes with expanses of open sky or sand that go across the scene then you might find the fall-off noticeable. If you are shooting scenes with forests on the edges then you may never see the fall off.
    Some people prefer the fall off as they feel that it pulls the eye into the scene, others feel that it gives a wide angle look to the image. Many can't stand the fall off. Maybe you will do architecture and shoot the front of a glass or steel building that goes from the bottom to the top of the film. Then you very may see fall off in the building's glass or aluminum surface.
    In order for a center filter to work the lens must be stopped down at least two stops as was noted earlier. That means that using a center filter wide open won't do anything.
    Lastly, my hypothetical question, how do you know that you will NEVER use ANY movements? You will certainly at some time use tilts or swings to control the plane of focus in your scene, won't you? Using a typical folding camera you may have base tilts. These will make your image shift on the ground glass and make the fall off assymetrical - making the need for a center filter more obvious.

    So the only answer is yours. Go out a shoot with the lens under the conditions that you normally shoot and with the film that you normally use and see what you get. Like it without? Don't get the filter. Don't like it? Get the filter. But bear in mind, the lens manufacturer won't not offer the filter unless there was a need for it. They don't want a filter lying in inventory because there is no need for it and no market for it.

  9. #9

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    The following comments of course reflect my personal taste only...

    When the SS150XL is centered on its image circle, I do not use the CF when shooting B&W or color neg film. The falloff is not noticeable with real-world subjects.

    When shooting chrome film, or using significant movements, I always use the CF.

    Depending on your shooting style and choice of subjects, there are cases where the falloff can be your friend. If you shoot from the bottom of a canyon, for example, apply some front rise, and need to hold back the sky and brightly lit top of the frame, then the falloff by itself might be enough to do the trick, without resorting to a yellow/orange or ND grad filter.

  10. #10

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    Re: Super-Symmar XL 150 needs center filter?

    Thanks for your comments everyone!! About to start shooting on this lens .. hate to waste film

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Please email me - my inbox is always full.. (press ALT and click on my name, then select "Send email to Uri A"). Thanks!

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