To tube or not to tube?

[ahorwitz]

I've been shooting 8x10 for a few years now (still learning), and doing tray development, eyeing the jobo drums. I just recently began printing platinum/palad. I am curious how others might handle the issue of extended development/semi-stand, say in pyrokat? What tube set up is best for this application?

[Bruce Watson]

I've been shooting 8x10 for a few years now (still learning), and doing tray development, eyeing the jobo drums. I just recently began printing platinum/palad. I am curious how others might handle the issue of extended development/semi-stand, say in pyrokat? What tube set up is best for this application?

You can't really do stand or semi-stand development in tubes. The point of the tubes is continuous agitation -- you roll the tube and thus the film through a puddle of developer. If you stop rolling you'll have some film out of the developer and some underneath the puddle. Clearly uneven development will result.

If you want to work with stand and semi-stand agitation methods, tubes aren't going to be your best bet.

[Donald Miller]

You can't really do stand or semi-stand development in tubes. The point of the tubes is continuous agitation -- you roll the tube and thus the film through a puddle of developer. If you stop rolling you'll have some film out of the developer and some underneath the puddle. Clearly uneven development will result.

If you want to work with stand and semi-stand agitation methods, tubes aren't going to be your best bet.

You can do semi stand or stand development in tubes. All that needs be done is to create a three part tube. The three parts consist of the tube, the extension, and the cap. This allows tubes to be stood on end or rolled as needs dictate. The process for use is 1. load the film into the tube 2. add the extension to the tube 3. pour in the chemical to cover the film with the tube standing on end 4. install the cap

I have been doing this for over five years now with good results. I have done it on everything from 4X5 to 8X10. If one pays attention to the square inches of film that have been developed then one can reuse the developer (to published capacities in the case of 5X7 or 8X10) where the quantity of developer, stop etc can become quite large.

Donald Miller

[Don Hutton]

Tubes are an excellent way of doing stand or semi-stand agitation - fill them up (with dilute developer) and stand them on their ends. I had some of the original BTZS ABS 8x10 tubes for exactly this purpose. While they need a lot of developer solution, you are generally using very diluted developer anyway.

[Bruce Watson]

You can do semi stand or stand development in tubes. All that needs be done is to create a three part tube. The three parts consist of the tube, the extension, and the cap. This allows tubes to be stood on end or rolled as needs dictate. The process for use is 1. load the film into the tube 2. add the extension to the tube 3. pour in the chemical to cover the film with the tube standing on end 4. install the cap.

I hadn't thought about doing it like this. Of course you can. You'll likely use a lot of developer like this, but what the heck? With Jobo tanks you'd use even more developer, enough that I suspect it's not cost effective, and getting effective agitation might be difficult. But I guess it depends on the person doing the work.

The thing I'd worry about with the film on edge like this without any real agitation is bromide drag. Not a problem?

[Wallace_Billingham]

I have done this with both 4x5 and 8x10 using Patterson daylight tanks like you would use for roll film. Since I already had them they were free. The one that holds 2 rolls of 35mm or one roll of 120 will easily hold a 4x5, and the one that holds three 120 rolls will hold an 8x10 sheet. I have used Rodinal 1:200 and it worked great.

I put the film in exposed side in, I then filled the tanks up 2/3-3/4 of the way full and inverted the tank for 60 seconds, then set it down and filled up the tank the rest of the way until the developer can be seen in the top funnel. Then I do nothing and let it sit for an hour and a half to two hours. (It really does not matter).

Then I use plain water as a stop bath, and put the fixer in the tank. The back side of the film will not clear properly so I finish it off with fixer in a tray but since the exposed film will be fixed you can do that in the light.

You need to make sure you put in the center tube as that is the light trap. I have also done this with Diafine using the standard developing time and it works great. Since you reuse Diafine there is no waste doing it this way

[Brian Ellis]

You can do semi stand or stand development in tubes. All that needs be done is to create a three part tube. The three parts consist of the tube, the extension, and the cap. This allows tubes to be stood on end or rolled as needs dictate. The process for use is 1. load the film into the tube 2. add the extension to the tube 3. pour in the chemical to cover the film with the tube standing on end 4. install the cap

I have been doing this for over five years now with good results. I have done it on everything from 4X5 to 8X10. If one pays attention to the square inches of film that have been developed then one can reuse the developer (to published capacities in the case of 5X7 or 8X10) where the quantity of developer, stop etc can become quite large.

Donald Miller

What's the extension for? I used 4x5 and 8x10 BTZS tubes for many years and also made my own 8x10 tubes. Cap, tube, that's all I needed, no extension. They could be stood on end or rotated. When the BTZS tubes are placed horizontally in a water jacket and rotated constantly they require very little developer, I used one ounce of D76 1-1 per tube. Obviously more would be required for stand or semi-stand development but still nowhere near the quantity I needed when I used trays for a brief and unpleasant time.

[sanking]

When developing 5X7 sheet film in Pyrocat-HD with semi-stand or minimal agitation I us an old Beseler print drum and open ended PVC tubes about an inch longer than the film. I fill the drum with developer so that it will cover the top of the tubes. In the dark I load the film in the PVC tubes, set the timer and then plop the tubes into the developer all at the same time. I then place the top on the drum and agitate gently for one full minute. After that I agitate gently at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of total development time for 10-15 seconds. After the top goes on the drum the lights can go on.

This method uses more developer than if you just fill individual tubes, and a lot more than if you use regular constant agitation with rolling, but you use a weak dilution (I use 1.5 A + 1 B + 200 Parts water), and you can re-use the solution a couple of times more if necessary, provided that you do so within a couple of hours of mixing the working solution.

Sandy King

[Donald Miller]

What's the extension for? I used 4x5 and 8x10 BTZS tubes for many years and also made my own 8x10 tubes. Cap, tube, that's all I needed, no extension. They could be stood on end or rotated. When the BTZS tubes are placed horizontally in a water jacket and rotated constantly they require very little developer, I used one ounce of D76 1-1 per tube. Obviously more would be required for stand or semi-stand development but still nowhere near the quantity I needed when I used trays for a brief and unpleasant time.

I built my tubes so that the edge of the film protrudes slightly past the top of the tube for ease in removing the film. Additionally I found that without the extension at times the top edge of the film would not get covered adequately with the developer. That is why I built my tubes with the extension. It solved that coverage problem and still allowed the film to be easily extracted.

[ahorwitz]

Thanks everybody. As always I am humbled by the wealth of experience here at the forum. Many ways to skin and agitate a pyrocat.