post alternative techniques

[scheinfluger_77]

From great sand dunes park, Medano creek. Single coat Gum over Pt/Pd print on Arches platine. 8x10 digineg. Forgive the iPhone snap please
Attachment 146614

I know that place, and find job you did of photographing it. Thanks for sharing.

[OMU]

Christin
Bromoil on liquide emulsion
Fomapan 200 @ 100 in Xtol
Gandolfi 8x10 reduktion back 4x5
Fujinon 1:6,7/250

[bob carnie]

Here is a question for other gum enthusiasts


I am using Daniel Smith Blue Yellow and Magenta - I have been using mix ratio identical for all three. But I am finding a problem with the Blue being to overpowering.. As per Cristina Andersons excellent
book , I see she suggests a much more diluted pigment to gum for the blue pigments..

I am testing this right now , but I would like to hear any thoughts on this and if others are finding the blue to be problematic.

Also both Stephen Liviks notes and Christinas book recommend laying down Yellow- Magenta - and Cyan

I have done different order of pigment lay down dependent upon the main primary colours in my image, it seems to work but I would also like to hear other thoughts on this.

Also Erik-- every where I read lamp black is hard to lay down but you seem to have great results, as well I just saw a 4 colour gum video by Nick Vedos where he also uses black with no adverse effects.
thoughts??

[Erik Larsen]

Bob, you're going beyond my skill sets with the four color gum prints as I normally only do a single color to bump the shadows. As far as lamp black goes, I don't notice it applying any different than say sepia or umber or combinations of all three. I use a hot dog roller (dry) to apply the kdichro/gum pigment. I roll getting increasingly lighter in pressure as it spreads over the paper. I've tried hake and foam brushes as well but found I preferred the foam roller for a smoother coat. The others worked fine, I just liked the roller best.

As far as pigment concentration, I think the only answer is to do a few test of different pigment concentrations to find the right mix for the pigment used. I've found not all lamp blacks are the same. Some brands more heavily "black" than others. I've stuck with the Windsor Newton brand because it's what I can get locally.

Keep pushing the envelope so we can benefit from your successes and failures as you nail down the process!

[Denny]

Bob, I use Daniel Smith pigments, and find I have to dilute the yellow more than blue or magenta. I use a different curve for each color, and I often leave the blue layer in the wash an extra 10 minutes or so. When I use lamp black its for a 4th layer, and find I have to resize beforehand to avoid a color cast. Recently I'm finding I prefer 3 colors over Pt/Pd, skipping the 4th layer of lampblack. There are so many variables...

[bob carnie]

Hi Denny

well you are finding the exact opposite than me which is interesting.

I just redid my blue with a control strip and image and found I liked the larger gum ratio with less exposure on the blue. I am using the same curve for all three colours that is used for the palladium negative.
Yes the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

repeatability is key and not getting over anxious and moving too fast.

Bob, I use Daniel Smith pigments, and find I have to dilute the yellow more than blue or magenta. I use a different curve for each color, and I often leave the blue layer in the wash an extra 10 minutes or so. When I use lamp black its for a 4th layer, and find I have to resize beforehand to avoid a color cast. Recently I'm finding I prefer 3 colors over Pt/Pd, skipping the 4th layer of lampblack. There are so many variables...

[Denny]

Bob, if you haven't already subscribed to the alt photo list I would really recommend it. There's a great group of alt practitioners that are always willing to help, with many expert gum printers including Chris. More info here:
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com...o-process-list

[davehyams]

I think if you are linear on all of your CMY layers, order doesn't really matter too much. I shuffle the order depending on my registration system. Print CYM at a workshop or demo without a plate punch and if I am moving quickly in the lab, MYC or YMC if I am printing one offs or slowly at home. If there is a major difference I know one of my colors is out of wack or the pigment is not as translucent as it could be. These days everything looks pretty good. Printing Cyan first makes it really easy to visually register the next layers. Have a love hate relationship with the process, but there is nothing like a well printed gum print.

[bob carnie]

Hi Dave - I hear you have a new job, congrats.

I like printing the cyan first as well , I think I got caught with a bad pigment gum ratio and screwed up my workflow.Ruined about 10 prints with too heavy of a cyan layer which I could not
wash off.
But I am now building slowly up with the yellow and magenta which lately have been washing
off well then cyan for the final detail
In Toronto the water is much colder from the tap at different times of the year. We had a dip of about 2 weeks of - 20degree weather and like a fool I was not compensating with hot water as over time you get lazy with your position of the water temp position, and I was washing out with 65degree rather than 70 degree. makes a huge difference.
What I find is the cyan is the most dominant colour in my process and mixed with the yellow which produces the green which is funny enough most of what I have been printing lately.. landscapes with green.(cyan +yellow=green
I am not visually registering the layers but rather using mounted paper to aluminum. But I am even seeing the paper try to shrink with the overall winter humidity drop.

So how are you profiling you cmy layers? I am just separating the master file into cmy and doing a BW conversion for the palladium (black) printer.

when I get to the pictorico stage I apply the pt pd curve we have made for the platinum to all the film. are you doing it differently?

I am finding the garbage bin fills fast, but when I get a keeper I am really excited as yes there really is nothing like this type of print... I think what is most satisfying is the
fact that these prints have a huge potential to last for a very , very long time.

Bob

I think if you are linear on all of your CMY layers, order doesn't really matter too much. I shuffle the order depending on my registration system. Print CYM at a workshop or demo without a plate punch and if I am moving quickly in the lab, MYC or YMC if I am printing one offs or slowly at home. If there is a major difference I know one of my colors is out of wack or the pigment is not as translucent as it could be. These days everything looks pretty good. Printing Cyan first makes it really easy to visually register the next layers. Have a love hate relationship with the process, but there is nothing like a well printed gum print.

[bob carnie]

Here is one of my solarization series- pd with cyan magenta separation negative.... This in fact was a mistake with the cyan too heavy as I explained above, but in this case since the whole image is
cyan other than the magenta hearts it worked. slight miss registration maybe caused by too much ink .
I think the pigment is still too heavy causing a rough looking texture but the originals are a lot like this even if I printed them with my inkjet printer on rag paper.