Accommodating short lenses on view cameras.

[rdenney]

I have spent considerable time in the archives, and in general searches of the Internet, trying to determine what seems to me a most critical piece of information: How short a lens can one put on a give camera? The information is out there in bits and pieces, but without sufficient detail to be authoritative.

If I missed it, I would welcome someone telling me where to look.

But in case I haven't where this has been done before, then I'll start.

Cambo SC and Calumet 45: Will focus a 65mm Super Angulon if both standards are on one side of the tripod mount, and if bag bellows and a recessed lens board are used. The bag bellows OR the recessed lens board are required for a 90mm Super Angulon. In addition to everything needed for the 65, the camera will focus a 47mm Super Angulon only if the rear standard is reversed, which requires the back to be vertically oriented (else the U-frame blocks the film-holder opening).

Sinar F F+ F1 and F2: Will focus a 47mm Super Angulon using a flat lens board and bag bellows (Wide Angle Bellows 1 works). Both standards must be on the same side of the tripod mount. Care is required to make sure the bellows are not folded up between the standards, or they will lean out at the top when trying to squeeze those folds. The Wide Angle Bellows 2 may make that a bit easier. For the 47, a recessed lens board avoids having to move the standards to one side of the tripod mount, and avoids the problem of having to fiddle with the bellows. The 65mm Super Angulon on a flat board focuses on a Sinar F using the bag bellows with no issue and with the standards in the usual position.

I would have included a 58mm SA in my analysis, except that I don't own one. And, with some cameras, a 75 might be good to test as well.

It's rather amazing how much I had to search to determine that the Sinar F would do what I wanted. And even then, everyone said it would focus the 47 just fine except for one fellow, who said it wouldn't even focus the 65. That guy must have had the standard bellows, and the first guys just forgot to mention that you have to reconfigure the camera to use the 47. Since I would like to use it for roll film, these lenses are not really all that short. It's also rather amazing at how little the camera manufacturers say about it, except in secondary measures such as minimum bellows draw.

If folks just added a paragraph or two to describe their view cameras (only common brands will have much efficacy for future searchers, it seems to me), this thread could perhaps help folks like me out in the future.

Oh, and see my wanted-to-buy post for a Sinar recessed board that hasn't already been drilled too large for a #00 shutter.

Rick "respectfully submitted" Denney

[Bob Salomon]

A Linhof Master Technika 2000 and 3000 will easily accommodate a 35mm focal length lens. The Linhof TechniKardan can use a 35mm lens. The Linhof Master Technika can use a 35mm focal length len.

[gevalia]

This topic is a fantastic idea. I would suggest that it be an article on the main page.

[Darryl Baird]

I think this begs the question of how many of us use roll film backs on our 4x5 cameras (and which camera). I do and I found similar issues of which lenses worked with standard versus bag bellows. In my case, the Wista technical camera was the camera in question, and the answer was a dedicated wide-angle rig made by Wista. Capable of shooting at least 65mm (shortest I own).

I also have a Cambo SF 2x3 camera with bag bellows and haven't tried to accommodate the wide angles, although It should easily with a bag bellows. I can try it and report back. FWIW, I think a 2x3 camera really shines in this application.

[rdenney]

A Linhof Master Technika 2000 and 3000 will easily accommodate a 35mm focal length lens. The Linhof TechniKardan can use a 35mm lens. The Linhof Master Technika can use a 35mm focal length len.

Bob, what bellows are required? At what focal length is a bag bellows required?

Rick "for whom Linhof stuff was still out of reach in terms of price" Denney

[Per Madsen]

On the Toyo 45AII I have the following recommendations based on my experience:

1" recessed board:
65 mm with movements.

1/2" recessed board:
80 mm with movements.

flat board:
90 mm with small movements, but full movements on a 90 mm on a 1/2" recessed board.

The Toyo 45AII has a fixed bellows and a bag bellows is not possible.

The shortest possible lens with no movements is probably a 47 mm (bassed on the measurement of a fully compressed belows).

[Joshua Dunn]

I have both the Schneider 38mm and 47mm Super Angulon XLs that I use on my Sinar F2. I use recessed lens boards and a bag bellows for both lenses to allow for movements. But I did mount the 47mm Super Angulon XL once on my Zone VI. I could focus on close subjects but the angle of coverage is so wide you could see the front of the cameras focusing bed.

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, what bellows are required? At what focal length is a bag bellows required?

Rick "for whom Linhof stuff was still out of reach in terms of price" Denney

Rick,

There is no interchangeable bellows on a Technika. Those cameras handle the lenses with the fixed bellows. On the Master Technika 2000 and 3000 models a 35mm focal length lens is mounted into the 001015 "Comfort" recessed board with a 12mm recess.

With the TechniKardan you can focus a 35mm lens at infinity with the standard bellows but will not have any movements with lenses on the wide end. If you use the bag bellows for 90mm and shorter lenses you would get whatever movemnts the lenses provide. On the TK 45 a 35mm lens is mounted on a 001035 board with a 21mm recess.

[Lynn Jones]

I hate bag bellows, they often sag and vignette the image.

I hate almost as much, recessed lens boards, there don't seem to be any flex tip cable releases anymore.

What I did while at the original Calumet (1965/66) was to invent a new view camera which we called the CC402 Wide Field camera. It would take lenses as short as 47mm on a flat board at infinity and a lens easily up to 180mm. However, late in the life of Calumet they put a stiff bellows on that camera and it wasn't worth a flip after that. If you can find an old grey camera with the double folded soft grey bellows you really have something. I'm on my third one, it was so popular, 2 of them were stolen over the years!

Lynn

[Bob Salomon]

I hate bag bellows, they often sag and vignette the image.

I hate almost as much, recessed lens boards, there don't seem to be any flex tip cable releases anymore.

Lynn

Lynn,

Not all bag bellows sag. Many, like Linhof's, have a metal wire in them so that they hold their shape. And Gepe makes a very popular Wide Angle Cable Release Extension as well as "L" and "U" shaped cable release adapters. And the latest 001015 Linhof "Comfort" recessed board is actually easier to use then a flat board as all of the controls for the lens and the aperture scale are on the flat part of the board so there is no reaching into a recess to operate or read the shutter controls.