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Thread: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

  1. #6091
    Recovering Leica Addict seezee's Avatar
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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by Pritcher View Post
    Hello all, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Western Blot 5x7 Xray film. I just bought 100 sheets on Amazon and I really do not know much about it. I want to use Fa-1027 developer given its favorable properties, but there is very very little info out there about that too haha. I likely will just have to do some trial and error, but boy am I glad to finally have an alternative to Arista Ortho Litho with my 5x7 Press Graflex. At any rate, insight of the sort would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    I'm going to save you some time in digging through this thread. Start by rating it at ISO 25 in midday light. If you are shooting in natural light, the film loses speed in early morning and late afternoon as the light gets warmer — it's blue or green sensitive and there's less of that wavelength at those times. Under studio lights it will be fairly consistent.

    Handle with extreme care. It's coated on both sides & the emulsion is very soft, especially once it's wet. If you tray develop, use a smooth bottomed tray or put sheet of glass in the bottom or your tray.

    Develop by inspection under a red (not amber) safelight.

    Hope that helps. You really should start at the beginning of this thread (I know, it's a zillion pages long). That's how we all learned.

    Take some test shots to hone in on your personal EI. It's cheap and since we don't know this specific film, you'll have to figure it out for all of us.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

    seezee at Mercury Photo Bureau
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  2. #6092

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    I have trouble remembering the distinctions between Western from Southern and so-on for the "blots." They are used for finding and analysis of cellular components in molecular biology. usually the material of interest is "labelled" with radioactivity, sometimes fluorescent dyes. The radioactive ones, presumably western blots here, are detected/visualized by putting the "gel" used for separating the components onto the Xray film where the radiation then "exposes" the film. usu. the radiation is typically beta, I don't think gamma/Xray is typical, but it has been a long time since I've studied this stuff in any detail. I'd expect beta to fog the film better than gamma/Xray. In old film X-rays, the film is mostly NOT exposed directly by the X-rays, but rather the X-rays interact with a phosphorescent set of screens (one for each side of the typically double sided emulsion) and the screens make the light (blue or green) that interacts with the films. usually you are looking for certain proteins or DNA or RNA or fragments thereof, sometimes there's a lane with a "ladder" or series of molecules of known mass or charges or migration characteristics. The "gel" is a special gelatin or agarose etc with substantial pores. This allows the v. large molecules to move under electromotive force from an applied voltage, assuming they are charged and they usually are. Molecules move from the origin different amounts based on size or charge or maybe both. I believe pre-cast gels exist to purchase, speeding things up, but the running of separation takes a few hours, I think, and the visualization maybe a few hours more, again, I think. If this stuff interests you, google or a modern biochem book will have more information for you. I suspect the films will be single sided as there'd be no point for a second emulsion, not have an anti-halation layer, but I've not run a gel in 30 years and that one we used a special dye spray that likes DNA to find the materials, not radioactivity, so as car commercials say, "your mileage may vary."

  3. #6093

    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    However Amazon does sell known X-ray
    Quick update, I got a message from Amazon saying my order couldn’t be filled, so I took it as a sign and bought some of the stuff listed in the link. So thanks for clueing me in on that bit. I also realized it would be more cost effective to simply cut down the larger sheets to 5x7. At any rate, I still doubt that there is any info out there for Fa-1027 development on this. Thanks Seezee for the tips, those will come in very handy when this stuff arrives. Also if there are any Graflex SLR users in the room, does anyone have any experience with this stuff in bagmags? I shoot almost entirely with bagmags, and I hope that they aren’t too rough on the film, both during loading and during cycling.

    Cheers

  4. #6094
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    I have used 2X (double-sided X-Ray in Mag Bags

    Works fine, cut carefully

    My bigger problem is flap-flap-flap, a sound I hate

    I bet you know it!

    I think I have 5 SLR Graflex that all worked a short time, until flap- flap-flap under low tension

    The 2X3 looks unused, but very difficult to disassemble the winder pin. The bigger ones are easier, a bolt

    I use a lot of X-Ray from Hasselblad sheet film holders to any size larger including 14X36"

    A warning, buy now if you like it, USA is converting to DIGI X-Ray asap

    Products are discontinued all the time

    The good news, it seems to age well under HVAC conditions, I don't freeze it

    A few of us here have lifetime supplies

    I buy this now and always from ZZ https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-acce...-ray-film.html
    Tin Can

  5. #6095
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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Try ASA 50
    Tin Can

  6. #6096

    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    18x24 Mammo Sinar Norma 300 Xenar Arista No 2 RC by Nokton48, on Flickr

    Second test of 18x24cm Kodak Min-R XRay film developed 18 minutes at 60C Straight replenished Legacy Mic-X. 300mm Schneider Xenar barrel lens AT f22 Yellow Filter. Four pops Broncolor C171 Beauty Light Contact Print 8x10 Arista #2 RC Multigrade dev. Again interesting how the red flowers go deep black.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
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  7. #6097

    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    This is lovely. I like the faint background light too.

  8. #6098

    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by the4x5project View Post
    This is lovely. I like the faint background light too.
    Thanks the4x5project ! XRay is fun to do. I still enjoy watching the image coming up in the Cesco tray. My lights are bright enough that I can see the shadow detail very well. Controlling high values seems to be the challenge. My gallon of Microdol-X is over two years old but still very active and seems fine. Very economic in that aspect.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
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  9. #6099

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

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    Hello to everyone. I have been away for quite a while now, but i will try to keep posting some experiments with lenses and examples.

    5x7 x-ray film - developed in Rodinal-

    From top to bottom, left and right column:

    photo 1: MOM 497mm at f 6,2 - 1/2 second

    photo 2: Brown MFG 19 inches at f 32 - 3 seconds

    photo 3: unbranded weitwinkel 110mm f 8 - 1 second

  10. #6100

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

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    from previous post

    photo 4: meniscus 250mm on 3d printed body and home made f 10 stop - 2 seconds

    photo 5: rapid euryscope at f 6 2 seconds

    photo 6: E. Francais 210mm at f 4,5 with 4 seconds.

    There where big clouds, so the sunlight was going back and forth, and thats why the exposure times are so mixed. Also i thought i could be a nice opportunity to experiment with the limits of the film.

    I hope you all enjoy, and as always, feedback, questions, comments and critique is very welcomed.

    A great weekend to everyone!!!

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