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Thread: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

  1. #6051

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by maltfalc View Post
    there's at least three or four brands of 5x12 dental duplicating film available on ebay.
    Right— thank you!
    However for my part I’m looking for options compatible with 8x10 and 11x14 (even if trimming is required).

  2. #6052

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by stiganas View Post
    All mamo film available, Carestream Min-R S, Carestream Min-R 2000, Carestream Min-R EV are double sided according to the datasheets:

    - MIN-R 2000 Plus Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
    - MIN-R S Film is a medium speed, dual coated,
    - MIN-R EV Film is a medium speed, dual coated


    and yet I read on this topic that Min-R film is single coated. It is a different film ?
    I read a flyer (don't remember if it was from Carestream or Kodak) about these films and they explain that dual coated mean a fine coating and a coarse coating. It was not clear if the two coatings are on the same side or on different sides of the support. But they explained which coating has to be oriented to the light. (As I remember it was the fine one.)
    I also contacted Carestream, asking to clarify if these films are coated with two layers both on the same side of the support or each on a different side of it. They did not answer. Maybe somebody else will try to contact them?

    On the other hand, the technical data sheet says:

    "Processing MIN-R 2000 Plus
    Film (Emulsion up versus down)
    As with all current Carestream mammography films, we recommend processing MIN-R2000 Plus Film primary emulsion side down in the MIN-R, 270 RA, 3000 RA and M35 series processors as well as in other manufacturers’ shallow tank processors.
    Processing non-uniformity, characterized by uneven optical densities on radiographs may occur due to the accumulation of processing by-products adjacent to the film emulsion inside the developer rack.
    Processing the film primary emulsion side down allows the developer solution to reach the primary emulsion more efficiently, reducing the occurrence of non-uniform development."

    Also read page 13 (page 15 of the PDF) in this very detailed brochure: http://www.medimat.hu/data/2013/0913...ide_M3-103.pdf
    Last edited by Eugen Mezei; 1-Feb-2022 at 16:33.

  3. #6053

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Interesting, I dug through Kodak technical pdf and found this::

    Processing the film primary
    emulsion side down allows the
    developer solution to reach the
    primary emulsion more efficiently,
    reducing the occurrence of nonuniform
    development.


    So it looks like two different layers on the two sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugen Mezei View Post
    I read a flyer (don't remember if it was from Carestream or Kodak) about these films and they explain that dual coated mean a fine coating and a coarse coating. It was not clear if the two coatings are on the same side or on different sides of the support. But they explained which coating has to be oriented to the light. (As I remember it was the fine one.)
    I also contacted Carestream, asking to clarify if these films are coated with two layers both on the same side of the support or each on a different side of it. They did not answer. Maybe somebody else will try to contact them?

  4. #6054

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    Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Interesting… so is this film notched? Is the other layer an antihalation only? (That’s probably wishful thinking but I’m not sure why they’d want to coat two different emulsions on each side….)

  5. #6055

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi7475 View Post
    Interesting… so is this film notched? Is the other layer an antihalation only? (That’s probably wishful thinking but I’m not sure why they’d want to coat two different emulsions on each side….)
    the front emulsion is right up against the intensifying screen, so it uses a finer, higher resolution emulsion. the light that makes it through the front emulsion and base to the rear emulsion has lost some fine detail, so the rear emulsion can use a coarser, higher sensitivity emulsion.

  6. #6056

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    Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by maltfalc View Post
    the front emulsion is right up against the intensifying screen, so it uses a finer, higher resolution emulsion. the light that makes it through the front emulsion and base to the rear emulsion has lost some fine detail, so the rear emulsion can use a coarser, higher sensitivity emulsion.
    Thanks! I appreciate the explanation.

    I think this means however that if using that film we are 1) still susceptible to scratches on both sides 2) sacrificing resolution in contact printing due to the second emulsion separated by the film thickness (maybe now even worse if the other emulsion is coarser, compared to identical coatings on both sides?) and 3) still without antihilation; so maybe these represent no real advantage to the other options such as Fuji HRU, etc….

  7. #6057

    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    MINR XRay Test 1 210mm Componon F22 Two Pops C171 by Nokton48, on Flickr

    18x24cm Kodak MIN-R Mammography film cut into 4x5s. Sinar Norma Broncolor C171 with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. Two strobe pops with Sinar Norma Shutter, multiple pops are no problem. Schneider chrome Componon lens at F22. Lisco Regal 4x5 film holder. Legacy Mic-X film dev 8 mins at 68F Aristo 8x10 #2 RC print Multigrade dev

    Sinar Norma 18x24 Lisco Holders XRAY by Nokton48, on Flickr

    Kodak Min-R Single Sided Mammography 18x24cm by Nokton48, on Flickr
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  8. #6058

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi7475 View Post
    Thanks! I appreciate the explanation.

    I think this means however that if using that film we are 1) still susceptible to scratches on both sides 2) sacrificing resolution in contact printing due to the second emulsion separated by the film thickness (maybe now even worse if the other emulsion is coarser, compared to identical coatings on both sides?) and 3) still without antihilation; so maybe these represent no real advantage to the other options such as Fuji HRU, etc….
    the rear emulsion is likely there to boost density or dynamic range and the front emulsion should capture plenty of fine detail and may transfer it well in contact prints. it wouldn't be optimized for one sided illumination if they weren't trying to maximize fine details. it does seem to have an antihalation layer over the rear emulsion. but who knows.

  9. #6059
    おせわに なります! Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Yes, the two emulsion do indeed boost dmax, but I think the main reason is that it doubles the amount of silver halide, which increases the film speed. It is best to develop this type of xray film in flat-bottomed trays, using very gentle agitation. I never get any scratches this way (including 14x17). As far as contact printing goes, you cannot see any difference in resolution, unless you do a side by side comparison with a single-sided film print, and even then, it is subtle.

  10. #6060

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    Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

    Thanks! Very intriguing. I’d try it out but unfortunately Min-r is only available in 18x24 and 24x30 cm … which don’t get along with standard 8x10 and 11x14 holders…

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