What kind of movements did Sullivan - Jackson - Watkins, etc. have ca. 1870-90s?

[Frank Petronio]

Where they geared asymmetrical or just the friction Orbix?

Seriously, I figure they probably had front rise but I am thinking that is all they had. Anyone know?

When I think about their pictures you don't see a lot of sharp foreground (I think).

I don't really see a lot of movements coming to cameras until the early 1900s but perhaps I am mistaken....

When did the concept of tilt & swings even originate? Was it all due to Dr. Schwempfuphizxdth (I can't spell it anyway)? Or did practical photographers figure it out on their own and it took an academic to "invent" it?

[Pete Watkins]

Frank,
I'm not going back as far as you want but in the Anthony catalogue from1891 they were producing cameras with front rise and what looks like rear tilt (the Anthony Compact camera). In England in 1888 Thornton-Pickard were producing the Tourist model with rear tilt. The Cyclum model was described in an advertisement in The Year Book of Photography for 1888 as having "swing back, swing front rising and falling front and a reversing back". Looking at the not very good drawing that I have of this camera I think that they mean tilting back and front and not swing.
Best wishes,
Pete.

[Peter K]

The first camera on optical bench was buildt by Petzval in the 1850ies. But the concept of tilt & swing was invented for photogrammetry and aerial photography to get correct projections for maps and reconnaisance. So the austrian captain Theodor Scheimpflug invented the double projector to measure stereo pictures, also to get maps for reconnaisance.

Scheimpflug made also most of the early maths to correct the distortion of arial photographs. But I don't know when this was transfered to "practical" photography. Because all this tilt and swing for aerial photography was made not with the camera but with projectors and enlargers.

Of course photogrammetry was improved during time to get easier and also better maps. But as I know the next step for "practical" photography was the invention of the back movement for the "Technika" camera by N. Karpf in 1937.

As lenses with bigger image circles where aviable cameras with an optical bench where buildt by Koch in Switzerland (Sinar), Karpf in Germany (Kardan) and Calumet (Kodak View Cameras).

[Gene McCluney]

The earliest wet-plate photographers did not have lenses with wide enough coverage to use much if any movement, tilt, shift. They also had to shoot wide-open or close to wide open to get enough exposure for reasonably short exposures.

[Miguel Curbelo]

My Sands Hunter (12x15") dates from the 1890s and has front rise/fall and rear tilt and swing.

[GPS]

The first camera on optical bench was buildt by Petzval in the 1850ies. But the concept of tilt & swing was invented for photogrammetry and aerial photography to get correct projections for maps and reconnaisance. So the austrian captain Theodor Scheimpflug invented the double projector to measure stereo pictures, also to get maps for reconnaisance.

Scheimpflug made also most of the early maths to correct the distortion of arial photographs. But I don't know when this was transfered to "practical" photography. Because all this tilt and swing for aerial photography was made not with the camera but with projectors and enlargers.

Of course photogrammetry was improved during time to get easier and also better maps. But as I know the next step for "practical" photography was the invention of the back movement for the "Technika" camera by N. Karpf in 1937.

As lenses with bigger image circles where aviable cameras with an optical bench where buildt by Koch in Switzerland (Sinar), Karpf in Germany (Kardan) and Calumet (Kodak View Cameras).

The OP questions were already discussed in a different thread.
Unfortunately Peter, many of your statements are wrong. Tilts and swings has never been "invented", only empirically discovered with the first loupe - so far back in history that we don't even know when. The first optics authors describing rays behavior were aware of them too.
Primitive optical benches were needed to discover and examine the first optical laws.
Back movements were not used (let alone "invented") for the first time in a Technica camera either, old wooden cameras used them too,.. etc. Cheers!

[Frank Petronio]

I searched but couldn't find it. But the search on the forums is pretty lame.

OK, but when Watkins was making a 20x24 glass plate for the railroad, do you think he had a tilting capability? (front or back)

[BrianShaw]

Frank. A Watkins exhibit recently closed at the Getty Museum. I never made a visit but a friend gave me the brochure. It talks about his negs and prints but no details fo the camera. I recall, however, my buddy telling me that they had one of his camera there. Perhaps it is true; perhaps not... my buddy is a bit senile, as might I be. Perhaps you can contact Getty for an answer to your question.

[Oren Grad]

A quick glance at the indispensable Field Cameras of the United States site shows that some American field cameras were offering both rear swing and rear tilt by the late 1880s.

[Kirk Keyes]

Certainly by the late 1880s what we would call a field camera had appeared - see this one from 1888:
http://www.photographica.nu/und231.htm

I've looked into some books from the 1870s and they are using simple box cameras at that time.

OK - how about this:
US Patent number: 210445
Filing date: May 2, 1878
Issue date: Dec 3, 1878

"My invention relates to an improvement in photographic cameras; and it consists in the arrangemcnt and combination of parts whereby the ground-glass frame can be adjusted back and forth, tilted backward and forward, and moved around from side to side, as will be more fully described hereinafter."