IMPORTANT CONFERENCE ON FUTURE OF SHEET FILM

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Good topic with strong opinions on both sides. Personally, I welcome ANY conference that promotes anything to do with large format photography.

WRT to the continued viability of LF film. Kodak JUST completely redesigned their Readyload line of LF products. The previous system had been around for over a decade with mixed acceptance (some loved it, some hated it). IF Kodak was planning to get out of the LF film business, I doubt if they would have spent the resources required to change horses midstream and completely redesign this entire product line. With this in mind, I'm guessing that the profit margins on the Readyload products are sufficient enough that they felt it worthwhile to redesign and EXPAND this part of their LF product line. I know, not everyone shoots Readyloads, but to me this signals that Kodak is not intent on DROPPING LF products, but shifting their efforts to the products that provide the greatest profit potential. That doesn't help those whose used the products that were dropped, but at least they don't appear to be abondoning the LF market totally.

How useful would a conference on sheet film be? Hard to say. Depends on who attends and what is discussed. Personally, I'd love to attend such a conference, and one of the things I'd like to see is a discussion on the ways we, as LF enthusiasts can help promote and expand the LF user base. One of the things I take great pride in is the number of new users I have introduced to large format photography. It started with friends and has grown beyond. I could probably do even more, but as it is, I try to give guest lectures and talks on "Getting Started in Large Format Photography" at the local community college, camera clubs, etc. Look at it this way, the best way to insure that companies continue to produce the products we use is to get other people hooked on using those products. Increase the number of users, and you increase the demand for a product and make it viable for the manufacturer to continue making them. If there is a demand, there will be products. If there is no demand, the few of us who remain will be coating our own plates.

So rather than grouse about the market shrinking and products disapperaing, get out and get others hooked on LF photography. Show them your work, let them see just how good prints from LF originals can look. Answer their questions. Point them to resources, both online and in print, that can help them get started. You want to insure the continued availability of LF products, then you need to become a LF advocate every chance you get. In spite of Bob's dire predictions, market trends can be reversed. However, it takes effort. We, as users have the most to lose (and the most to gain). We can either be proactive about this and do our best to get others using sheet film, or we can just sit back and complain about the evil manufacturers who stop making products that aren't viable due to a lack of market demand.

Kerry

[Alec Jones]

I'm of the opinion we need to encourage the present manufacturers to stay in the business [translated, that means BUY THE DAMN STUFF!!!!]

Speaking of Forte, I love their 35mm film. Just wish they would make it in 4x5 rather than those strange European sizes.

[Jeff Buckels]

Will do, Dan.... Thanks everyone for your interesting responses to this knotty problem. I'll talk to Steve Simmons about the conference right away and suggest he take a look at the thread here.

While I'm here, though, a final thought suggested to me today in an interesting private email: It would be informative for each commercial advertiser in the latest issue of View Camera Magazine (the folks who sell us our cameras, lenses, film holders, etc.) to append to this thread in the next week or so a brief description of any steps they've taken in, say, the last year to ensure that we have reliable sources of sheet film in the future.

jeff buckels (albuquerque)

[Andre Noble]

Hey, as long as someone comes out with a digital capture that slips into the camera back like a film holder and covers the whole 4x5 frame, captures something like 100,000 by 100,000 dpi, then who cares if sheet film availability dries up altogether?

Seriously, as long as there are Walker Evans and Ansel Adams exhibits in museums like the Getty, silver based photographic sheet film will also be available. Buy the way,is anyone out there buying the 5x7 Arista B&W film or the 4x5 Macophot 820c IR film? Andre

[Bob Salomon]

Something like that back was introduced at the 1998 Photokina from Anagramm.

The Picture gate series which easily makes 20' digital prints of photographic quality from it's capture.

The most practical one captures 8000 x 9700 on a 6x9cm view camera.

Colenta shows one on 45 cameras.

www.anagramm.de

[Mark_437]

Jeff - Good idea! And unlike what the naysayers are spouting, these sorts of things have been demonstrated to make a difference. Heck, mediocre TV shows have been brought back to life (when they were slated for the scrap heap due to poor ratings and ad revenues) by passionate viewer response. So, while important, the current finances of the situation aren't the only factor.

The nattering nabobs of negativity are showing their ignorance of marketplace dynamics by acting as though it's a static situation. There's also the PERCEIVED LONGEVITY (or lack thereof) of the market. If manufacturers thought a market might dry up in the forseeable future they might start cutting back now (even though it may be currently profitable) in plans to do away with that product eventually. On the other hand, mfgs routinely (and knowingly) lose money while developing new products which they hope will catch on someday. The main point here is that these decisions aren't (can't) be based only on financial fact, for they involve predicting the future. What WE CAN DO is to do our best to convince the mfgs that we (and other LF shooters) are in this for the long haul. That there will always be a reliable (if not huge) market for LF film. That it's not a fad for us which will go away in a few years. This type of thing (perceived market stability) can and does make a big difference in informing the decision-making process of marketing folks.

We can also reward those who cater to us, and let them know that we're doing this. Example: As a LF shooter I like Ilford, and as a ULF shooter I love them. Not just because I like their products (which I do) but because I think they are more supportive of LF photography (and b&w photography in general) than the other guys. (They actually *expanded* the availability of their banquet-sized films recently!) So of course I buy their products, but I also write them and tell them how much I appreciate their support and say that (here's the important part) because of their attitude, I now use their products exclusively for ALL of my photo needs wherever possible. 35mm film. 120 film. 4x5 film. 8x10 film. 12x20 film. Paper. (LOTS of paper. Ever think about how many sheets of paper you use for each neg you shoot? You can bet the folks at Ilford do.) And I refer other people to their products all the time. When newbies ask me and I tell them that I really like HP5-Plus or their Warmtone Multigrade paper or whatever (and show them some examples of work done with these) then I've helped create a long term customer for them. And I TELL ILFORD all of the above. Does any one customer matter, financially? Of course not, but it's like writing your congressman - for every letter they get they assume you represent a large number of constituants (customers).

And if we all write, it will make a difference. Remember, this is a niche market where a few hundred customers one way or the other can make a difference to the mfgs. So write to Fuji, Kodak, Ilford, Agfa, Lotus, or whoever. If you use their stuff and are happy with it, thank them and let them know they have a loyal customer. And if you used to be a customer but they bailed on your particular emulsion or format, tell them that you switched due to a lack of their support for your art, and that they've lost your business forever. Believe me, marketing wanks like to "keep their ear to the ground", and they take notice of such sentiments.

Cheers and good luck!

[james mickelson]

One of the problems with LF and talking people into using it is the fact that it is basically a print medium. You make prints from LF. Most people shoot slide m,aterial or neg material and have 4x6 machine prints made. Now quite a few people shoot neg and slide material and scan it and make prints with a color printer. Most people aren't swayed by the argument of superior results from LF material. A lot of them view it as a very hard and costly format. Look at those who buy a 4x5 camera and then want sheet film capability. Why not just shoot MF? I hear it all the time in the field. "Nice camera. I'll bet it is expensive to shoot. Where do you get you film processed? Isn't it hard to do? How do you show your slides?" Most photographers get slides and scan them now. They don't set up a darkroom and learn to print. Not even black and white shooters. Everyone scans and digitalizes their images. What the hell do you do with a couple of hundred prints? And how many prints do you make until you say enough is enough? I shoot and print in a wet darkroom so I'm hooked. I espouse the vitues of that style of photography. But I hear more and more people that argue for digital capture and printing. So there are a lot of different reasons for the dwindling enthusiasism for LF and wet printing. But as Sexton says to all his workshop participants, Please "write" to manufacturers, especially Kodak and tell them how you feel. He doesn't even want you to email them. He says to write to them and gives you valid addresses. I think a conference would be a big step toward showing support for LF. James

[steve simmons]

As many people know I am planning q conferecne on large format photography in Albuquerque, NM late June 2002. The tentative schedule is on my web site www.viewcamera.com

If any one has suggestions for additions to or deletions fropm the schedule please e-mail me.

steve simmons

[Greg Pratt]

A conference can only have an up side. A sort of unification of kind. This can only lend weight to assorted agencies like Kodak etc. as some sort of unified body. Opinions would be sort by them of trends etc. On another note the good folk who tend to respond to this and other links on LF tend in the main to be amateur and art orientated. Don't forget the huge (although not as huge as it used to be) group of professional and commersial users of sheet film. Digital or no digital, sheet film is still used by quite a number of these studios and in copious quantities. In the end I envisage that we will have fewer choises but inproved quality of what is manufactured. I feel the body of LF equipment manufacturers will and indeed do have casting votes on a lot of what goes on. So go for the conference and as suggested write letters. Not so much bitching but be positive. Evey one likes a pat on the back, big business is no exception and remember it's not Kodak or Fuji etc. it's an individual who makes a decision then forwards a pre ordained outcome to the board. It's his back you want to target. -- Greg.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Steve, I checked out your web site and saw the proposed schedule for the conference. I think you managed to put togehter a good representative sample of LF work. My only suggestion would be to include some kind of round table with the manufacturers so that we can hear their view as to where do they think LF is going and what if any plans they have for the far future. If you extend an invitation and they decline to show, then we all will know where we stand with them! I beleive that as LF practicioners we are sometimes too timid, everytime a manufacturer does away with a good product all we do is shrug our shoulders and start testing other materials to replace the one we liked. If you give them an opportunity to speak and (God forbid!) answer some questions, maybe we will not be so worried. Heck even if they say " folks we will be doing away with LF film in 10 years" it would still be good, at least it would let me know I better start learning photoshop and what all those little buttons in my computer are for!