Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

  1. #1
    tgtaylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    4,266

    Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Hi all,

    Over the weekend I did my first B&W using a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum on a CPA2. Up to now all my B&W processing was by the 'hand immersion' method in either 2500 or 1500 series drums.

    The hand immersion procedure that I have been using calls for a 2 minute wash aid such as Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent immediately after the fixer with continuous agitation for the first minute and allowing it to stand for the remaining minute. But the Jobo processing instruction for B&W is silent about using a wash aid and, of course, there is no way to allow the drum to stand for one minute without rotation unless you removed it from the processor and then filled it up to the top.

    I was a little perplexed when I came to that step. Since I have been taught to use a clearing agent step and, upon reflection, consider it highly beneficial if not downright necessary in removing the hypo from the film, I added it to the drum and let it rotate for the 2 minutes. Unlike a wetting agent such as PhotoFlo, I did not think that Hypo Clear would harm either the processor or the drum.

    My questions are:

    1. Why does Jobo skip the Hypo Clear step? Jobo calls for the normal 5 minute wash using the same amount or slightly more water as the developer.

    2. Does using a wash agent pose any potential problems for the processor or drum? Is it necessary for the wash agent to remain motionless for the last minute?

    3. Is a 5 minute wash by itself is sufficient to remove all the fix from the negative?

    Incidentally, the negatives (36) turned out superb - so much so that I am considering doing most of my B&W processing with the Expert Drum.

    Thanks for your input and Happy New Year,

    Thomas

  2. #2
    Eric Woodbury
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,285

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    I cannot answer your questions, but I can pose another. Wash agent treats both sides of the film: all of the film, whereas developer, stop, fix, and the like are treating only the emulsion. I don't know that I trust the wash agent to get under the film (between tank and film) to clear the fix.
    my picture blog
    ejwoodbury.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Octogenarian
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Frisco, Texas
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    HCA (hypo clearing agent) is sodium, or ammonium, sulfite.

    Since it is an alkaline solution, it is useful for neutralizing the acidity of the fixer (hypo). HCA is mostly used for neutralizing acidity from fiber based paper. Film and RC paper are non-absorbent. Therefore, rinsing in HCA is not really necessary.

    I haven't used HCA for film since I began using alkaline TF-4 fixer, instead of an acidic fixer.

    However, I still use it for FB paper after toning, since Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner contains an acidic fixer.

  4. #4
    tgtaylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    4,266

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Thanks for your enlighting post Gem Singer. It motivated me to get out Hawley's Condensed Chemical Dictionary. I took general chemistry in college but except for the mathematics of dimensional analysis that I learned in the courses, haven't used it much.

    I learned to process film here in California where there is a perennial shortage of water and using HCA makes environmental sense. The method taught was 5 changes of water over a five minute period. Jobo has 10 changes of water over the same time period. Looking again at the Jobo manual, it does state that HCA or hypo-eliminator products may be used to reduce rinse times.

    Thomas

  5. #5
    Bob
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    223

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    The only black and white film related chemical JOBO specifically recommended you avoid using in the drums is PhotoFlo like solutions which apparently leave some residue in the drum.

  6. #6
    Octogenarian
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Frisco, Texas
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Thomas,

    All you need to do is switch to an alkaline fixer, such as Photographer's Formulary TF-4 and forget about using HCA for film.

    An alkaline fixer washes out of film in a few minutes, using ordinary water. Saves time, water, and money, in the long run.

  7. #7
    Robert A. Zeichner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Southfield, Michigan
    Posts
    1,119

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Woodbury View Post
    I cannot answer your questions, but I can pose another. Wash agent treats both sides of the film: all of the film, whereas developer, stop, fix, and the like are treating only the emulsion. I don't know that I trust the wash agent to get under the film (between tank and film) to clear the fix.
    Actually, the design of the Expert Drum allows chemistry to reach the back of the film. If you sight down the dividing rib in a cylinder of a 3010 for instance, you would see it is slightly curved. Is this important? Yes, very much so. While logic dictates that it is the emulsion that gets developed and fixed, there are dyes that are used in manufacture of certain films that need to be dissolved off the base in processing. Take T-max for example. I process a lot of it in an Expert Drum and unless the pre-soak and later, fresh fixer reaches the backing of the film, I would end up with negs that have a profound magenta cast.

    As far as HCA, I use it as the last step in processing. 4 minute fix, 1 minute rinse, 1 minute Heico wash aid. I then "rinse" the system with several (3 or 4) 1/2 minute water rinses of 500ml each. This, to clean out the plumbing of the system. I then pop open the drum and move the sheets to my Gravity Works film washer where I give a 5 minute wash with one change per minute.

  8. #8
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    USA, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,262

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    This tread on APUG addresses washing. Lots to read, lots to debate. Enough for a good sized headache.

    The bottom line is, you don't really need a wash aid. But to be safe, you should calibrate your process, just like you calibrate developing to find your personal EI and your personal N development time.

    What you need to find out if you've washed enough is a hypo test kit. Kodak doesn't make theirs anymore, but Photographer's Formulary still makes such a kit.

    Bruce Watson

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    2,051

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Most of your questions answered above. Film does not necessarily need a hypo clear step but some workers like to be fanatic about clean processing. An issue can be residual drum contamination. With drum processing it may be necessary to use multiple rinses to achieve an adequate degree of chemistry removal using the successive dilution technique. Really depends on how the film sits in the drum and how thoroughly the previous chemistry can be flushed from tight spaces within the drum (read between drum and film back surface among other nitches). When I use a drum for film I remove the film before or after fix and finish the processing in SS film hangers including final photoflo.

    If I did only a final wash in the drum I'd do 5 changes over 10 minutes or so to be really safe.

    Nate Potter, Austin TX.

  10. #10
    Large format foamer! SamReeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,210

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Everybody's got their own method of madness. I stopped using HCA in favor of Permawash. I just run the drum for the recommended time on the bottle (1 minute) and then proceed to wash for 5 minutes with 10 changes. I haven't had a bad negative yet.

Similar Threads

  1. Jobo expert drums and beseler motor base. It can be done!
    By Jorge Gasteazoro in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-Jun-2010, 03:27
  2. Which JOBO: Expert Drum (3006/3010) or 2521 tank
    By Ron Bose in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 18-Mar-2008, 11:30
  3. Replacing a Jobo Cog on an Expert Drum
    By Robert Ruderman in forum Darkroom: Equipment
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-Feb-2008, 13:15
  4. Jobo Expert Drum question
    By Don Wallace in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 27-Oct-2005, 12:16

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •