Toyo 45CF

[dazedgonebye]

Still looking at options...

I'm seeing a lot of Graflex cameras go for upwards of $300 lately. Some go for less than $200, but many are on the high end. That's discouraging from a cheap guy point of view. I see a Graflex as a value buy only.
That's got me looking at the Toyo 35CF. I've found a few opinions on it here and there. As near as I can tell, it shares some of the same limitations as the Graflex cameras. In fact, it seems (feature wise) a bit like a Super Graphic with perhaps better movements.

As an alternative to a Graflex, what is the thinking on this camera?

Oh...I just saw one go on ebay for about $560, including 90mm lens.

[BradS]

I'm sure that you mean the 45Cf...not 35CF - right?

Anyway, it is very much like a modern, carbon fiber interpretation of the Graflex Super Graphic...and for a good reason (Toyo bought the company? and produced a Super Graphic for a while).

Most people poo-poo the 45CF...I happen to like em. They seem to me to be a Crown Graphic with all the annoying things fixed. Unfortunately, the Toyo 45CF does not have a synchronized range finder so, it is not as easy to shoot handheld.

[dazedgonebye]

Yes...I meant 45.
I shouldn't type late at night.

[Kuzano]

Yes...I meant 45.
I shouldn't type late at night.

I've considered them, but the consistent complaint is that the thread bosses that are cast into the composite material of the bodies often strip out if you are heavy handed on locking the movements down. The weight savings is nice, but not all that significant. If you keep eyes out for the Toyo 45A metal field camera, you can often find one in nice condition for what most people pay for the CF. I bought a Toyo 45AII still in the box and like new condition last month for $600. The more recent Toyo 45AX sells in like new condition for about $700-800.

If you are really considering raising your budget to the $500-600 level, there are considerably more choices that appear to be better than the reports I have heard on the 45CF.

That budget will put you into Shen Hao's used, Tachiharas, Woodfields and Wista.

Last month I sold a Wista 45D wood folding camera for $450 on eBay. Sold it on Buy it Now and was snapped up on the first day.

I will offer this... not one of these camera's is the perfect camera. Almost every one of them has one or more reasons to look at the next camera up the line. I venture that if you reason this way, you will ultimately be looking at $1000 to $1500 cameras that won't do much more than a graflex will do. Simply put, that is to position the best lens/shutter you can still afford in front of a Ground Glass in certain variable juxtapositions with a light tight bellows in between. That's all the best of them do, and certainly what a less expensive graflex will do if all the parts are there and there are no bellows leaks.

Sorry if that's already obvious.

[Terence McDonagh]

I have a 45CF that I got at the intro rate of $400 when they came out. At under $500, it's a good deal. Above that, I'd go for something else. They're fine if you're not too rough with your equipment. There really is no need to torque down on anything. It stays pretty rigid, and any movement flexes right back into the original location.

I also have an AII. It is a far better camera in terms of build quality, movements, etc., but is significantly heavier for backpacking. For a day hike, I'll take the AII. For a four day, backcountry hike, I'll take the 45CF.

[paul08]

Used 45As and AIIs have been going on ebay for $500 - 750 the past couple of months. You could probably get a good deal after the holidays. Just try to get one from a reputable seller and make sure the bellows are in good shape.

[dazedgonebye]

As long as I'm getting a graflex, might as well get a toyo 45CF. As long as I'm getting a Toyo, might as well get a Shen Hao....

[jnantz]

the cf is nice ...
if something breaks on it, the folks at toyo ( MAC ) are very nice
and have the parts to fix the camera to send to you ...
i have a cx ( the view camera ) and one of the blocks
on the rail cracked ... i called them they had me send the camera
to them, the replaced BOTH blocks,
realigned the camera, sent it back to me, in little or no time
and didn't charge me anything ...

there's always going to be people who tell you to get something else ...

have fun

john

[Kuzano]

As long as I'm getting a graflex, might as well get a toyo 45CF. As long as I'm getting a Toyo, might as well get a Shen Hao....

If this comment was garnered from my comments, it was not my intention to imply that you should move up the price scale and go for a better camera, then I apologize. I obviously did not make my point very well.

It's all too easy to justify the next camera up the line. My intent was to imply that a good graflex (not a perfect graflex) would probably work for you as well as the more expensive cameras. I don't think a Graflex will ruin the large format experience for you. The mere impact of seeing a well composed and exposed piece of 4X5 film will overcome any limitations of the less expensive camera. I am surprised that you are finding only $400 Graflex cameras in the market, but I won't judge your standards on what will satisfy you.

All I was saying is that walking up the price scale is robbing money that will be needed for lenses, tripod, film, changing bag, loupe for focusing, dark cloth, and that's the short list.

I started with a Graflex, and frankly, although I have moved to full movement monorail, heavy weight Shen Hoa field, lightweight Wista, Gowland Pocket, A Bender kit camera, A Calumet CC402, and currently the Toyo 45AII, I will honestly say that I could have done all the LF work done so far with that original Graflex.

So, I campaign for the lower cost option on the camera, as an entry point to LF.

The trend to walk up the price scale is a fundamental weakness of "Gear Hogging", which I admit to. In fact if there was a support group for the addiction of constantly looking for the magic camera, I would probably be a charter member of the founders group. "Gear Hogging" is detrimental to the practice of image capture, but some of us are more turned on by the feel of the next camera, than we are by capturing the next image.

I'm not implying which one you may be. I am merely sharing experience here in terms of my opinion as to which cameras work. They all do...but they have varied limitations. However, even the lowly Graflex cameras have a fair number of the most often used movements.

[dazedgonebye]

I didn't take it that way Kuzano.
I was talking about my own tendancy to walk up that price scale. Something around $200 in a graflex is easy. Once they start to go over $300, I start to think maybe I should just spend more for a better camera.