Stolen Lens - Here's the REAL moral dilemma

[ASRafferty]

Refund the buyer's money, make your claim and wait for your money to come back. Then you've done the right thing.

I just notified my buyer that that's exactly what I'm going to do.

[Pete Roody]

Both my buyer and I have done... he could have bought it innocently from the thief, but there's a possibility that he's also the original thief, so it's a toss-up how that will go.

What if you were to buy the item on eBay, and not pay for it. Could you then go to eBay and state your case with proof that the item is stolen? You would need your buyer to cooperate. eBay should be accountable for allowing the sale of a stolen item. Stolen property has to be returned to the owner. I guess the question is who is the owner; you or the buyer.

[Joanna Carter]

Dropping it at the post office isn't delivery...

The package was not just "dropped at the post office", the carrier agreed to insure the package against loss/damage and to deliver it. Therefore, Amy is not negligent, she has taken all reasonable care to ensure delivery. It is, from the point of acceptance for delivery, the carrier's responsibility to execute the contract to which they have agreed and thus, their responsibility and liability to reimburse the sender for the loss.

Of course, from a cynical point of view and without detriment to the customer, it is possible, until proven otherwise, that the customer received the goods, passed them on to the seller on e-bay and is hoping to double their money. Thus it would be imprudent for Amy to offer reimburement until proof of mis-delivery is obtained.

[BrianShaw]

The group-think here has been interesting, but I'm going to replace my "WWJD" bracelet with a "WWHAD" bracelet.

[Henry Ambrose]

Joanna,

You may be applying English law to this issue but Amy lives in the U.S. And its not really a legal matter at this point anyway.

This very thing is why I generally won't ship across borders. Not that I dislike anyone from outside the U.S., just that the headaches can get so big if something goes wrong. We might also use this as a lesson about how we ship or at least a reminder to consider the actual possibilities of outcomes.

Amy is doing the right thing by refunding the money.

[Charles Carstensen]

It is the seller obligation to deliver the goods. Disagree with Joanna, you have the moral responsibility. Give the money back to the buyer now. Chalk it off to new experience. Make it a rule to never use the postal services for anything you cannot afford to lose.

[Miguel Curbelo]

Joanna,
This very thing is why I generally won't ship across borders. Not that I dislike anyone from outside the U.S., just that the headaches can get so big if something goes wrong.

Henry, are the headaches any smaller if things are stolen or lost within the US?

[ASRafferty]

I think the bottom line is that these circumstances have separated into two distinct situations -- my agreement with the buyer, and my contract with the US Postal Service, for which the buyer should not suffer. Since my buyer and I had no contingency plan for what we would do if this happened, I believe that anything short of his having the lens in his hand means the deal hasn't gone through. I've asked him to send his credit card company in search of the refund, though, to eliminate any possibility that he puts that request through while I'm refunding him directly and we get caught in a doube refund/timing mess that we have to untangle, on top of everything else!

[Richard K.]

We seem to be glossing over an important part of this whole mess. HOW did the eBay seller come to acquire this lens? He says it's from an estate sale. How could he know? How could his supplier know? Who does he say his supplier is? Did someone sign for delivery of the package? Who? What address? Or was it just never delivered? Inside postal job (unlikley) or stolen from the doorstep? Did the postal delivery person on that route say he delivered it?

Since he (the eBay seller) is in possession of a stolen lens, it is a simple matter for the local police to visit him, get the above questions answered, prosecute the guilty party(ies) and get the lens to the owner (either you or your buyer, depending on whether you've re-imbursed the money) and effect proper criminal proceedings. This would also confirm the unlikely possibility that your buyer is in cahoots in this. What has transpired on the law enforcement side of this?

I would appreciate hearing what you have to say re the above questions. This does have some importance to all of us. FWIW, you are trying hard to do the right thing- you can do no more! Man, I just never thought I'd see crime in Canada!

[Richard K.]

Also, I've got to ask. What does the eBay seller say to you about selling a known stolen lens? Why didn't he pull the auction immediately? What's he hoping to accomplish?