Isn't teaching "Professional Photography" morally wrong?

[Frank Petronio]

Not in the same way that fine art programs teach painting, sculpture, or fine-art photography -- where the students know going into it that they probably won't find work in their field upfront -- but at the so-called professional schools that teach commercial photography -- like Brooks, Art Center, RIT... isn't it unethical on the school's (and the teacher's) part to pretend that their students are really going to be professional photographers?

I mean maybe a few will succeed as working photographers, but how would you feel about other professional schools cranking out doctors, lawyers, or engineers with such low placement or success rates?

Isn't it a huge flaw in the argument that these schools provide a professional education when the teachers themselves are struggling professionals who turned to teaching to support themselves?

So, benefitting and profiting off the hopes and dreams of naive 18-year olds -- ain't that wrong? How would that not be exploitation?

[Walter Calahan]

Yep

[erie patsellis]

The other side of the coin, there are a ton of us that have been shooting for decades, and now find ourselves basically unemployable without a degree, strange as it seems. I can't even get someone to look at a book until they've vetted my background, and the lack of a degree (per their requirements) removes me from the pool right off, without even looking at the body of work in the portfolio.

Unfortunately, a lot studio work is typically done in house these days, and HR depts have to come up with standard set of requirements, which in every case I've found they won't waver from.

So what's a guy that loves photography to do? Get the AAS or AFA/BFA, mostly through demonstrated competence, thankfully. The thought of sitting through basic and intermediate photography classes, being taught by TAs who weren't even born when I started shooting for a living thrills me to sleep.

[Gene McCluney]

While it may be difficult to justify getting a commercial photography degree with assurance of employment. The tools and techniques can be useful if you are primarily interested in self-employment and need "bona-fides" to be considered for a project assignment.

The nuts and bolts of getting the degree does "in no way" indicate that you are qualified to produce a body of work on demand for a given commercial project.

[windpointphoto]

A friend of mine who owned a wedding and portrait studio told me he could run an ad for people to be "professional" photographers and pay them minimum wage and he'd get 200 people apply. An ad hiring garbage collectors for 25.00 per hour would draw squat. It's the ego and status I guess.

[Ash]

The course I'm doing comes under the title of "Foundation Degree Professional Photography". The name changed earlier in the first year to add the "Professional" bit. I'm the student rep so I kinda feel I gotta protect my investment here

After two years you can then top up a third year specialising in the field of photography you wish to enter.

This course is run by a course leader who was a professional photographer for about 20 years or so, including working for album art such as The Jam. He was teaching at a London university before moving to teach this course. Our tutor last year has had a body of work published in SOURCE (a good few pages actually) and has an MA in photography, while our guest lecturers this year are both professional photographers who teach one or two days a week as extra income. One of those lecturers also teaches at Bath university.

We have 'jobs' set by members of a Professional Liaison Group that are required to be finished within a set timespan of anything from a week to 6 hours. We have frequent workshops, lectures on professional practice and copyright. Basically we are getting all the training on how to run ourselves as freelance photographers or else protect ourselves within a business that we may work for.

Alongside this opportunities for 'real' work crop up as well. Some internally for college, such as PR shots for resources partnerships, or in my case photography to be on the college website of the board of governors. Next week I'll be shooting alongside the local newspaper's head photographer, taking photographs at the town's football club that will feature on the "Big Screen" in the town centre - that job is set by the BBC. In the summer I also had a day shadowing an architectural photographer for the English Heritage. All this experience builds up a client base and contacts, and any work produced gratis for these people has benefited people who completed the course and such were given paid assignments after leaving the course.

In a sense it depends on the course. You could say the same for any profession "those who can't, teach" however even our technician is a wedding photographer and spends his weekends doing those jobs as he has always done.

Students that finished the second year of this course have already been enrolled either on the final year of the degree at the main university campus, or else are doing their own thing. Once student received an opportunity last year to photograph at STEAM museum. His images have now been bought into a deal for 130,000 postcards to be sold at the museum in the foyer. He has already started selling himself as a photographer and he has only just started the third year.

As a university course, we can also have our work as part of an exhibition. Last year we had a small local exhibition that received coverage in the local paper, and at the end of the second year the "FREE RANGE" exhibition in London is also available for our participation - we've just started looking at prices and logistics.

I'm on the start of the second year and my CV already has English Heritage, BBC, Canon (as I work for them part time as a sales rep) and a number of smaller nightclub venues I have done work for.

Because of the layout of the course, tonight I'll be shooting at a venue for a contact of mine - and I can tie in the 3-4 hours I spend taking photographs for him as evidence to show my engagement with the 'real' world of photography.

[Ed Richards]

> Not in the same way that fine art programs teach painting, sculpture, or fine-art photography -- where the students know going into it that they probably won't find work in their field upfront

Don't you believe it. They each believe they will be the exception.

I like the theory that MFA programs are run by the restaurant industry to assure a steady supply of educated waiters who will work cheap.

[BrianShaw]

So, benefitting and profiting off the hopes and dreams of naive 18-year olds -- ain't that wrong? How would that not be exploitation?

Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. Education should be outlawed!

[Brian Vuillemenot]

It's not just photography programs- it seems like the percentage of graduates who work in the fields they trained for is pretty low in many different disciplines. The one exception is health care, where it is quite easy to find a job. Having gone to grad school as a biomedical researcher, very few of the graduates from my program (probably about one third) continue on in research. And this is after four years of undergrad and five years in grad school. The same is true with music majors- how many music majors graduate and actually become professional musicians?

The higher education industry exists to make money, not to prepare students for careers. It's pretty shocking to me that many college tuitions are now about 50 grad per year. Where is the money going?!? And after a student (or his parents) invest the 200 grand for a bachelor's degree in music, how long will it take to make the money back waiting tables at Starbuck's?

[Ash]

The higher education industry exists to make money, not to prepare students for careers. It's pretty shocking to me that many college tuitions are now about 50 grad per year. Where is the money going?!? And after a student (or his parents) invest the 200 grand for a bachelor's degree in music, how long will it take to make the money back waiting tables at Starbuck's?

Student Loans in the UK are only repayable once you hit a wage bracket suitable for the money to be repaid. In this sense if you got a degree and never got past minimum wage for the rest of your life, after 40 years your loan would be written off.