I am buying a 617 camera, but can not decide between
Fotoman / www.fotomancamera.com / and
Panoraflex / www.panoraflex.de /(rebadged Da Yi / Gaoersi).
Fotoman: I like wide variety of lenses;
Panoraflex: I like the idea of removable back. Panoraflex is cheaper too.
I lean towards Panoraflex, but I am worried about film flatness.
Any experience with any system?
Thank you.
Ambroz
Last edited by ambroz; 4-Nov-2008 at 16:18.
I have a fotoman 612 and it is one fantastic kit built like a sherman tank. You could not go wrong with a 617 fotoman.
I have a Fotoman I bought used with a 180mm from a member. IMHO I got a deal. I've sinced added a cone and viewfinder mask for a 75mm SA I already had. Dealing with Fotoman was no problem. Film flatness is addressed by the there being a knob on each film spool allowing you to tension the film by counter winding. You can get a ground glass accessory which allows for pre-focusing before installing film. Otherwise it's by zone focusing or using a rangefinder of some sort
Looking at the Panoraflex I do like the removable back option. This would allow for ground glass focusing/composing per shot and makes the use of shift more practical.
There are no prices listed on the Panoraflex site and I bought my Fotoman used so I have no way to comment of pricing.
JGB
I have owned a Fuji GX617 with three lenses... I am getting a Shen Hao 617... for $1500 it is clone of the Ebony $7200 617 and will take all my large format lenses
Jesse
Yes, but requires more time to focus and it's bulkier. Wind can cause vibrations.
Ambroz,Originally Posted by ambroz
I had Shen Hao design and manufacture the first of these 617 view cameras.
Fundamentally, this was due to my distain for the cone system found on the Gaersori/DaYi/Fotoman et al.
I can assure you that this camera is significantly less bulky than my old DaYi Shift II with a 90mm SA. In addition, I know have a 110mm SSXL, a 150mm Fujinon and a 240mm Fujinon in the same case that used to hold the DaYi.
In addition, I cannot stress how useful full movements are; don't be fooled by mere shift on the cone bodies. Swing and tilt are used so much more (especially if you go for lenses with minimal image circles and you shoot landscapes). The Shen Hao has rear tilt, somewhat mitigating the need to shift.
Also consider close focus abilities of a bellows system. Makes for interesting panos! I also have marked infinity and hyperfocal distances (at f16) on the flatbed rails for all of my lenses, so focusing is not a time-consuming exercise. It is also not more time consuming than using my DaYi with focus screen.
(If you want a point and shoot pano camera, I would suggest getting a 12-14meg DSLR and cropping).
I have had no real issue with wind, especially as I hang my bag from my tripod hook. Don't assume that a hard nose cone (say, for a 210mm) will not be affected by wind - it, too, will be...
Save your money and your bag space. Get all of the additional features with the Shen Hao and a bag full of lenses for the same price as the Fotoman!
Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Jess has in the past and I hope that I answered all questions raised.
Lachlan.
Last edited by Lachlan 717; 4-Nov-2008 at 22:54. Reason: Stuffed up the italics...
I have the Gaoersi G612 and the G617. They are fine cameras and hold the film flat. The viewfinders aren't great and I will probably get a Fotoman finder later, it would be helpful to have a bubble level in the finder for a handheld shot. I agree with Lachlan that a viewcamera based one would be more versatile allowing tilt, the cones are expensive and bulky. I use a pano back on 4x5 also and find tilt great. The reason I bought the Gaoersi, when on vacation, the wife and son hate it when I pull out the viewcamera. Attache file shot with Gaoersi G612.
Thank you all for your posts. Lachlan, you made me thinking...
Yes, tilt would be useful. If Fotoman is really heavier than Shen Hao 617, I have only two more concerns: wind and film flatness with Shen Hao.
I have bad experience with wind hooked into Sinar f2 bellows. (But Sinar bellows is really huge).
About film flatness - in Questions/Answers section on FotomanCamera homepage, there's a man, really frustrated about bad film flatness with his Gaoersi cameras. Fotoman cameras claim to have best film flatness in 617 range. It's because of two tightening screws, so you can tighten the film just before the exposure really good. How is it solved on Shen Hao 617 back?
About DSLR and cropping: I have 12 MP Eos 5D and made large print comparisons between 5D and 4x5'' transparency drum scanned. The print was 1m (40 inch) wide and 5D came surprisingly really close, but it's not the same. Velvia has better colors for my taste, the brilliance is different. With 617 I expect even better results.
Ambroz
Ambroz,
With any due respect to the Fotoman site, have you ever seen a manufacturer come out and say that, "yes, our product is not very good"?
Having 2 tensioners is a fine idea. However, most film backs simply have passive tension on the film spool. I'm not sure how many Newton metres/ foot pounds of torque are required to make the film flat...
That being said, I have never used a Fotoman. However, I have used both Fujis (G and GX 617), Linhof, Gaesori/DaYi and now Shen Hao and have had no issue with any of their film flatness. Setting up the shot using focusing screens is my preferred method (rather than point and shoot using the "view" finder), gives a much better idea of accurate focus.
One area that I have found affects image quality is in the glass that you use. Again, I must emphasise that you can get a set of high quality lenses for the Shen Hao for the same price as a Fotoman with 1 lens (AND fit it into your one camera bag!!)
Perhaps get the person at Fotoman to put up some justification for his/her claim of best in breed film flatness, rathe than accepting the blanket statement?
Lachlan.
Lachlan, sounds like you are very pleased with Shen Hao 617 Bellows camera.
What's the difference between TFC 617-A and -B version? Only bellows extension?
Does exist (and fit) any viewing bellow on the back side or do you use dark cloth for GG viewing?
Do you know maybe, does Horseman 617 Roll Film Holder fits, as Shen Hao 617 is a Ebony copy.
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