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Thread: 2x3 monorails?

  1. #1
    David J. Heinrich
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    2x3 monorails?

    Hi all,

    A few days ago, thanks to the help of many forum members here including Frank Petronio (who was kind enough to show me the operation of his 8x10 LF camera), I bought a 4x5 LF Linhof.

    The reasons I bought it are more creative control over dof, ability to use movements, and of course the enormous image quality.

    I am also interested in an affordable 2x3 monorail, preferrably one cheaper than the 4x5 I bought (it was ~$545). The reason for this is I'd like to adapt it to my 4/3rds digitla Olympus E-3, and make various modifications to mount 35mm lenses on the front of it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    PS: I suppose I could get another lens-board for the 4x5 and modify it, but I don't think the bellows could get close enough to the DSLR sensor to produce anything beyond the super-macro world.

  2. #2
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    Quote Originally Posted by dh003i View Post
    PS: I suppose I could get another lens-board for the 4x5 and modify it, but I don't think the bellows could get close enough to the DSLR sensor to produce anything beyond the super-macro world.
    I think this is going to be the case with a 2x3" monorail as well. In fact, it would be the case if the manufacturer of your camera made a tilt/swing bellows, because the apparatus of any bellows just takes up too much space, and you've got the mirror box of the camera to contend with, so it will likely only focus to infinity with a view camera lens of about 90mm or longer.

    Another approach would be to get a sliding back for your 4x5" camera with a mount for your DSLR. Such things are made by Fotodiox and various Chinese shops selling on eBay. Fotodiox makes lots of different camera mount adapters, so they may be able to make one with your Olympus mount, if you ask them. I think they only offer Nikon and Canon EF mounts as standard for the sliding back. Then you could compose on the groundglass, use movements, switch to the sliding back, refocus (but you won't have to change your other movements), shoot multi-shot images, and stitch them.

  3. #3
    David J. Heinrich
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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    Thank you very much for the helpful response. I'll contact them regarding possibly making a sliding back for Olympus.

    I guess I may just also should consider trying to make something like the Lens Baby 3G.

    The issue with any system that uses LF, for me, is that I'd like to use my 58/1.2 for this. So I guess I'll need to figure out a way to get lots of shift and tilt, but keep it very close to the camera body. I've done some experimenting with movements using my 58/1.2 and E-3 by hand...interesting results, but not too easy on the wrists, and a big PITA to get it right (lots of patience).

    PS: The reason why I say I want to use my 35mm lenses is that even the brighest lenses for LF are relatively dim when projecting an image onto a digital sensor, especially a 4/3rds format sensor. For non-telephoto lenses, imho, anything under f4 isn't too bright on 4/3rds. Also, DOF is very narrow on 4/3rds at f1.2, but not so narrow at f4.5.

  4. #4

    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    The 4/3 system has a film to flange distance of about 38.8mm. So any of those lenses, to focus on infinity would have to be 38.8mm from the film plane. But even then they would not cover 2x3 film. If you are planning to mount your olympus DSLR on the 2x3 back, then I'm afraid you'd have no way to get infinity focus with those lenses. You could of course use barrel lenses or normal LF lenses with large flange distances to make images with the DLSR. Adapters can be made at home for very little cost.

  5. #5

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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    Slow down, you're way way off.... You're only going to waste a lot of time and money going down this road and the results won't be any better than a Lensbaby or if you use a Leica 25/1.4 on your 4/3s Olympus. I don't know Olympus digital very well myself but there is a 50/2 Macro that would also give you short depth of field results.

    Trying to use camera movements on a 4/3s sized sensor is a fool's errand. Even with the medium format sized sensors -- which are 8x-10x? larger -- you really have a hard time making the subtle movements you need without using a very expensive and precise GEARED camera like a Linhof 679. To do it with the fingernail-sized 4/3 chip is pointless.

  6. #6
    C. D. Keth's Avatar
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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    Slow down, you're way way off.... You're only going to waste a lot of time and money going down this road and the results won't be any better than a Lensbaby or if you use a Leica 25/1.4 on your 4/3s Olympus. I don't know Olympus digital very well myself but there is a 50/2 Macro that would also give you short depth of field results.

    Trying to use camera movements on a 4/3s sized sensor is a fool's errand. Even with the medium format sized sensors -- which are 8x-10x? larger -- you really have a hard time making the subtle movements you need without using a very expensive and precise GEARED camera like a Linhof 679. To do it with the fingernail-sized 4/3 chip is pointless.
    There's also the part about lenses. Most anything made for a bellows camera will be quite disappointing as far as sharpness when you use it on a thumbnail-size sensor and enlarge it to such a degree. The lenses just aren't designed with that degree of enlargement in mind.
    -Chris

  7. #7

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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    "I'd like to adapt it to my 4/3rds digitla Olympus E-3, and make various modifications to mount 35mm lenses on the front of it."

    Um, er, ah, there's a large problem with this apparently sensible idea.

    Lenses made for 35 mm still have flange-to-film distances on the order of 45 mm. You're proposing to do the equivalent of hanging the lens in front of a bellows. Macro only, shooting a distance is impossible.

    If you must get a 2x3 monorail, a used Galvin, if you can find one, is probably the least expensive.

  8. #8

    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    There is Hartblei, who make the Super Rotator lenses, which have tilt and shift built into the lens mount. I know those come in four different focal lengths, and if I recall correctly about f2.8 maximum aperture. They make these available in a few mounts, though not specifically 4/3rds. One approach might be to get a Nikon to 4/3rds adapter, and buy a Hartblei Super Rotator. I think that would be the best approach, unless someone makes a macro bellows that fits onto a 4/3rds camera. Perhaps that is another approach; getting a Nikon PB-4 Bellows, which has full movements, and adapting that to a 4/3rds camera.

    The ground glass brightness can be helped in a few ways, though mostly it depends upon which lenses you are using on 4x5 (or 2x3). Generally the longer focal lengths tend to appear brighter on the ground glass, assuming maximum aperture is about the same. When you use wider lenses, you might want to look into getting a fresnel or screen brightener.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography

  9. #9
    Stefan Lungu's Avatar
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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    For your purpose I would suggest getting a T/S adapter for 645 lenses ( Mirex is making some nice ones ). Even so, you are in a clear disadvantage over full frame DSLR's since you can go oly down to about 70mm in 35mm equivalent with the widest linear lenses available for medium format. Trying to do something like this with a LF camera will go almost nowhere. It is nice to have all the movements in the world, but you will have problems with the fact that you only have long lenses - and they become very long on your 4/3 Oly. The only nice thing you can do is using the LF camera for stitching if you have back movements - that is like you go around with the sensor on the film plane and gather the information - no parallax, no problem. There will be a problem since your plane of focus is further than the ground glass, and focusing with the Oly might be hard - other than live view, but it could be done. Other than that, and this will only work for some applications, I would try to shoot LF on film and take the Oly for snapshots, family or when I'm on the run and would not have time for LF.
    Regards, Stefan

  10. #10
    David J. Heinrich
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    Re: 2x3 monorails?

    Thanks all for all the creative responses. I think I'll just stick to what I was a little opposed to at first, using a rubber plunger, with 4/3rds adapters on both ends, one to mount to camera, the other to mount lens to plunger, and maybe put a UV filter in or after the camera-mount to deter dust. That's cheap.

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