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Thread: A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

  1. #1

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    Hello everyone,

    I just want to share this information with everyone. I recently purchased a lens which is so amazing that it has become my number one used lens. It is awesome! It made me get rid rid of my 110XL. Which lens is this?

    It is the Schneider "Digitar" 120mm lens. I had never even heard of this lens up until recently. At first I thought it was for the big studio professional digit al cameras. As it turns out, it is no different than any other large format lens . It has a Copal 0 shutter and the likes.

    Why do I love it? Because it is so small, so sharp, and much cheaper than the Su per Symmar 110 XL I had. It weighs less than 200 grams! It is dwarfed by the len sboard. I have never seen a lens this small before.

    Schneider's web site says that the image circle is 150mm. But that is NOT true. I have maxed out the movements of my camera and I conclude that it is at least 2 00mm and probably more so. It will easily make any 4x5 shooter more than happy w ith lots of movements.

    When I don't need depth of field, I shoot it at f11 and the sharpness is beyond belief. It is sharper than any medium format lens I have ever used and that incl udes Hasselblad's Zeiss line up. Under a Peak 22x loupe I use, I have seen it sh arper than most 35mm lenses.

    Anyway, for anyone looking to get a small and super sharp, moderate wide angle l ens check out this baby. It will be quite a surprise!

    Happy shooting...

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    26

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    John - your AOL address failed. Where did you buy this wonder lens and how much was it? Sounds like the whole line might have potential. Just might help get the weight down to below 40 lbs.

    T

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Posts
    114

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    Here is the data on this lens. It is part of Schneiders Digital lens offering.

    Effective Focal Length f' 119.9 Relative Aperture f/No 5.6 Front Focal Length sF -93.2 Principal Plane (object side) sH 26 Entrance Pupil Position sEP 26.0 Back Focal Length s'F' 93.9 Principal Plane (image side) s'H' -26 Exit Pupil Position s'AP -26.0 Principal Points Separation HH' -1.5 Overall Optical Length SUMD 50.5 Pupil Magnification ?P 1.000 Reproduction Ratio of Image/Object ? 0 Image Circle Diameter 150.0 Mechanical Data Description Symbol Value Accessory Thread Gewinde1 M 40.5 x 0.5 Front Mount Diameter d1 42 Rear Mount Diameter d2 37.5 Shutter Diameter / minimum aperture d3 / kmax NK0 - / 32 Copal 0 61 / 64 Copal Prof. 0 63 / 45 Prontor Prof. 01S 77.5 / 64 Protonic 89 / 64 Overall Mechanical Height h1 55.09 flange to rear edge of mount / flange focal distance h2 / s'A NK0 23.4 / 236.13* Copal 0 23.0 / 235.73* Copal Prof. 0 22.1 / 234.83* Prontor Prof. 01S 20.9 / 233.63* Protonic 21.5 / 234.3* Screw Thread Gewinde2 NK0 M 32.5 x 0.5 Copal 0 M 32.5 x 0.5 Copal Prof. 0 M 32.5 x 0.5 Prontor Prof. 01S M 39 x 0.75 Protonic M 39 x 0.75

  4. #4

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    Todd,

    I paid $680 for this lens. I bought it on E-Bay from a "gray" importer. B&H sells it for $882, so I guess I got a good deal. It is certainly a lot cheaper than the Super Symmars.

    Schneider's web site has a lot of info on this lens. It has MTF curves, which show that compared to the 110XL, this lens has almost TWICE the resolution. The 40 lines/mm curve of this lens is almost as good as the 20 lines/mm curve of the 110XL.

    But the web site does not list the weight. I weighed mine and it weighs in a 188 grams without the lensboard or caps. The 110XL is 425 grams.

    But sadly the web site is not accuarate when it comes to the image circles. As mentioned before the actual image circle of my 120mm Digitar is much larger than the stated 150mm and more like 220mm or so.

    I am considering the new Super Symmar XL 80mm lens. But there are Digitar lenses in 80mm and 90mm focal lenghts also and again at about half the price. However the image circles for those are rated at only 90mm and 100mm, but I wonder what they really are?

    I wish Schneider would be honest with image circle figures...

    John

  5. #5

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    One thing I forgot to mention. The new Super Symmar XL 80mm lens has a 5 blade aperture. Does anyone know why? I thought all Copal shutters had 7 bladed diaphrams.

  6. #6

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    200 or 220mm image circle ? what about light fall off and resolution in the corn er ? can i fold my technika with this lens on it ? it looks like the lens that i was dreaming of !

  7. #7

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    John: Image circles are defined in a number of ways: light fall off and MTF fall off. All quoted specs are relative to parameters defined for the standards that the manufacturer sets for a particular design. When Schneider quotes an image circle it must consider what fall off is aceptable for the intended use of that lens. Of course, starting higher up, the digitars may go a greater distance to fall off to the acceptable end point used to define the IC for ordinary lenses, often zero MTF. Because the Digitar's standards are higher, as required by digital sensors, it is my guess that Schneider did not consider zero MTF as an acceptable end point for the digitars. Schneider's IC for the Digitar must be relative to the Digitar's standard, not the regular lenses standard. It takes people like you to bring the whole thing into the perspective of the photographer using film. Possibly, Schneider's engineers and the marketing people had their noses too close to the digital objectives to cast a wider glance at film applications. Other people in this forum have purchased Digitars but I do not think anyone before you looked at the issue you raise. As for Schneider, it would be useful to see MTFs and light fall off curves to zero end points to see what the IC would be - for film users.

  8. #8

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    John: Image circles are defined in a number of ways: light fall off and MTF fall off. All quoted specs are relative to parameters defined for the standards that the manufacturer sets for a particular design. When Schneider quotes an image circle it must consider what fall off is aceptable for the intended use of that lens. Of course, starting higher up, the digitars may go a greater distance to fall off to the acceptable end point used to define the IC for ordinary lenses, often zero MTF. Because the Digitar's standards are higher, as required by digital sensors, it is my guess that Schneider did not consider zero MTF as an acceptable end point for the digitars. Schneider's IC for the Digitar must be relative to the Digitar's standard, not the regular lenses standard. It takes people like you to bring the whole thing into the perspective of the photographer using film. Possibly, Schneider's engineers and the marketing people had their noses too close to the digital objectives to cast a wider glance at film applications. Other people in this forum have purchased Digitars but I do not think anyone before you looked at the issue you raise. As for Schneider, it would be useful for then to produce MTFs and light fall off curves to zero end points to see what the IC would be -for film users.

  9. #9

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    Today I mounted the 120mm Digitar on my 8x10 camera. Now, I could clearly see the image circle. I measured it very accurately and it is 208mm.

    The sharpness in the corners is still very good. I would say that the top notch sharpness is in the first 150mm, but all the way to the end it is still very good.

    The light fall off is none within the first 180mm. Then it gets dark. You need to stop down to f22 to get the illumination perfectly even all the way to 208mm. So if you want to use lots of movements and go right to the edge of the image circle you would need to stop down to f22.

    Does anyone have any other Digitars out there? It would be great to share any information...

  10. #10

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    138

    A lens better than the Super Symmar 110 XL !!!

    John

    How do you find the brightness/luminosity for focusing, compared to the 110XL? Is it as easy (bright) for GG focus and composition?

    Peter Brown

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