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Thread: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

  1. #11
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Interesting.

    So this is a list of known serial # production dates?

    Makes my Century, 1951, year of my birth.

    Thanks!

  2. #12

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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Randy,

    The list of serial numbers posted in this thread was compiles from answers to dating questions posted on www.graflex.org by Theron "Tim" Holden. You can read more about him at http://ghq.graflex.org/ , click on Tim Holden Memories.

    There's list of Graflex serial numbers by kind of equipment and date assigned behind Mr. Holden's answers to dating questions. It has problems and is difficult to use. Date assigned and date manufactured can be very different, especially for items that were sold in low volumes. There's no guarantee that assigned serial numbers were actually used. And the list breaks off in 1964 with the notation "See new book."

    As far as I know no one but Mr. Holden has ever seen the new book. The old book was briefly posted by this thread's original poster and was later taken down. I believe that copies were made and still exist.

    The list to which Rich gave a link and that's posted here is best seen as good guesses.

  3. #13
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Dan,

    Thanks for the heads up. I will take a longer look at http://ghq.graflex.org/ . I have a number of Graflex cameras and recently obtained 1944 edition of 'Graphic Graflex Photography, The Master Book for the Larger Camera', by Morgan and Lester. Plenty of very interesting equipment shown in there, and great advice for this newcomer to LF.

    I am particularly fond of 2x3 models, shooting sheets with my Century yesterday.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Randy,

    The list of serial numbers posted in this thread was compiles from answers to dating questions posted on www.graflex.org by Theron "Tim" Holden. You can read more about him at http://ghq.graflex.org/ , click on Tim Holden Memories.

    There's list of Graflex serial numbers by kind of equipment and date assigned behind Mr. Holden's answers to dating questions. It has problems and is difficult to use. Date assigned and date manufactured can be very different, especially for items that were sold in low volumes. There's no guarantee that assigned serial numbers were actually used. And the list breaks off in 1964 with the notation "See new book."

    As far as I know no one but Mr. Holden has ever seen the new book. The old book was briefly posted by this thread's original poster and was later taken down. I believe that copies were made and still exist.

    The list to which Rich gave a link and that's posted here is best seen as good guesses.

  4. #14
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    This the other site on s/n http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/serials.html

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    Dan,

    Thanks for the heads up. I will take a longer look at http://ghq.graflex.org/ . I have a number of Graflex cameras and recently obtained 1944 edition of 'Graphic Graflex Photography, The Master Book for the Larger Camera', by Morgan and Lester. Plenty of very interesting equipment shown in there, and great advice for this newcomer to LF.

    I am particularly fond of 2x3 models, shooting sheets with my Century yesterday.

  5. #15
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Thanks for the link, great resource!

    The Ektar dating system reveals my Century has a 1946 Ektar f4.5 101 mm lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    This the other site on s/n http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/serials.html

    Dave

  6. #16

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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Randy,

    What's your camera's serial number? The first Century was made in 1949. The first Century s/n assigned in '51 is 514597, the last s/n assigned that year is 518199, assigned October 16th. The first batch of Century serial numbers assigned in '52 were assigned 7/25, so your camera could have been made in '52.

    Impossible to know whether y'r 101/4.5 Ektar was sold with the camera. Could have been, but I'm not sure. I have the impression that owners replaced lenses. Upgrades and all that. The traffic on this forum gives the impression that there's a lot of that going around.

    FWIW, my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, probably made before May, 1947, has an uncoated 101/4.5 Ektar made in 1946. EO 3946. It may be a replacement, put on by someone who owned the camera before I bought it, but I like to think it is original. My fantasy is that it was bought from EKCo as Miniature Speed Graphic production was ramping down, not sold with a Mini, kept until 2x3 Pacemaker production began.

  7. #17
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Oh, Oh, now I'm gonna list a few numbers...

    #1, Century, # 514897, Lens Ektar EO14314, ending with 'L' in a circle, VGC

    #2, 2x3 Crown, # 733015, Lens Ektar EI1265, with the same 'L', VGC

    #3, Century, # 509697, Kodak Anastigmat, no #, f4.5 10.5 cm, GG focus and frame only, PDG

    #4, 2x3 Speed, No serial #, Kalart has #, Ektar EI822 'L', VGC

    #5, 2x3 Crown, # 439955, lens Graflex Trioptar, GG only, user

    #6, 3x4 Speed, No serial #, lens Jena, Nr.2375079, f4.5 11.5 cm, User cond Lens VGC sticky shutter

    #7, 3x4 Speed, parts camera

    #8, 4x5 Speed, International back, VGC, can't get to it right now.

    Then there's B&J, Busch, and Horseman, but nobody cares for them.

    I actually never before counted them, they just keep showing up!

  8. #18

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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    #1, Century, # 514897 -- s/n assigned 2/12/51, batch starts at 515698, next batch assigned 10/16/51

    #2, 2x3 Crown, # 733015 -- s/n assigned no earlier than June, '47, no later than 2/50. Probably 2/50, next batch assigned 2/21/50

    #3, Century, # 509697 -- s/n assigned 2/10/50, batch starts at 509595; next batch assigned 7/18/50

    #4, 2x3 Speed, No serial # -- sorry, no s/n no date. Which model 2x3 Speed is it? Miniature or Pacemaker?

    #5, 2x3 Crown, # 439955 -- s/n assigned 6/9/47, batch starts at 439871; next batch assigned some time in '47

    Larger sizes, sorry, can't help, don't have the data. Also, without serial number there's no good way of data anything Graflex and predecessors made.

  9. #19
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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    I don't know the difference between Miniature or Pacemaker with #4. I do like this one the best, as I like the focal plane shutter. I want to find a 2x3 Speed with an International back, if such a type exists.

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  10. #20

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    Re: Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    I don't know the difference between Miniature or Pacemaker with #4. I do like this one the best, as I like the focal plane shutter. I want to find a 2x3 Speed with an International back, if such a type exists.
    Miniature Speed Graphic with a Graphic (= spring) back. Compare it with a Crown, whose full name is Pacemaker Crown Graphic.

    International back? Wash your mind out with soap. Graflok back. Graflok. And, yes, there are all sizes of Pacemaker Speed and Pacemaker Crown Graphics with Graflok backs. Also with Graphic backs (= spring backs) and with Graflex backs (as on Graflex SLRs). Whatever the customer wanted.

    The Graflok back came to market in 1949. Before 1949, Graphics were delivered with Graphic backs, the Graflex back was offered to order. Starting in '49, Century Graphics had integral Graflok backs, other Graphics had Graphic backs as standard and Graflex and Graflok backs were optional. Eventually, sorry, I don't know which year, the Graflok became the standard.

    When the Graflok back was introduced, Graflex Inc. sold Graflok backs to fit older Graphics. I've seen Miniature Speed Graphics with the correct retrofit Graflok, complete with a flash socket at the back's upper left corner.

    Now go over to www.graflex.org, read the FAQs and everything else, and educate yourself.

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