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Thread: Foto 3 competition - follow up

  1. #31
    Clay
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Asheville, NC
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    361

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    I never made such a claim. What I said was that I never found them. They were sure not out front at the registration and welcome area any time I was there. Or in the trade show area. Or in any of the rooms where I attended talks. I just never was able to figure out where they were displayed. I never saw any signage pointing the way for me to find them. And it is quite possible that I just missed them. Which is what I wrote.

    No one is accusing you of anything but being strangely reticent to announce the contest results. But you feel that is your prerogative. Cool. My quotes in this thread yesterday were intended to lighten up this absurd discussion. You don't like my humor, okay. But please get your facts straight.


    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons View Post
    [I][B] Even Clay Harmon who was there has claimed we didn't show anything when we did.
    steve simmons

  2. #32
    f295
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
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    127

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    This is absurd. It's my opinion that Steve's argument is without merit and insulting. He (Simmons) reserved the right on the contest entry form to publish the winners in View Camera magazine. He could easily make a lot of things *better* by just doing what he has the right to do - publish the results. I'm amazed at the secrecy of this....

    I didn't attend but as an organizer of a different photo event it pains me to see such things take place. When people behave in ways that appear deceptive it's hurtful to all.

    I hope Simmons can find common ground and work toward a compromise with those who entered (& those who may have been considering entering his next competition) so they may feel as if they're not being cheated. I'm not saying they are being cheated but I can understand how some could feel that way.
    Last edited by tpersin; 28-Jul-2008 at 05:32. Reason: typo
    Tom Persinger
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  3. #33

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    435

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Why not just show the winners anonymously? That way they have their privacy and people could see the photographs that won. I know that I'd enjoy seeing the winning photos of a major contest.

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
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    591

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons View Post
    By accessing this site, you agree not to abuse other site users, neither by posting offensive comments (like personal attacks or insulting language

    This rule has been violated repeatedly by people and the moderators just let it go. There is no interest in a reasonable dialogue here. I have been accused of selling out, committing fraud, hiding things, rewarding junket art, only showing the work of professors on a tenure track, blah, blah, blah.

    If there was so much interest then why didn't people come and see the winners we were able to display? Why didn't you talk to the judge at the time. Why didn't people participate? You could have come and seen the work and talked to the judge for free. Even Clay Harmon who was there has claimed we didn't show anything when we did. Stephen Willard's comment that I said we were not going to show the winners was untrue. We had as many of them as we could in the lounge and the GP winner on the program and I told him so when he asked me.

    I am truly sorry people did not come to see the photos we were able to display and talk to one of the judges. The photos and judge were there and available for all to see.

    For non-participants to show up after the fact and complain about not being there and seeing the display is insane and emotionally and intellectually dishonest. We were there, where were you? Five weeks ago I repeated the judges names and work locations and invited people to contact them to verify the judging and discuss the entries. No one has done so. If there was any true interest this type of followup would have happened. I have been transparent in showing as many of the winners as I could at the conference and having the judges available and no one followed up. Again, if you were really interested the info is available.

    As for not posting them - well I have explained many times. It seems that people here feel their wants are more important than the requests of the winners. Not so, at least in my book. As I have said, I am honoring their requests for privacy.

    steve simmons
    Steve - I know you're not going to appreciate me posting here, but it's a free country and every time I have tried to defend you, you have angirly asked me not to. Fine. I'm defending the people who want to know who the winners were. The easiest way for this thread to end and for your frustration is to post a list of the winners of the contest and verification that the winners actually received what was promised to them. I think if people paid to enter a contest and they didn't win, they have a right to know who did win.

    Not everybody could attend the show due to their own personal reasons, but if they paid to play, then they deserve to know who the winners were.

  5. #35
    Terence
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    391

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Mr Simmons, I believe it was your post that had the insulting language which basically disparaged every member of this forum, even if you hid behind quoting an anonymous source.

    Without knowing the winners, how can anyone know that the money was dispersed, and that this wasn't just a fraudulent money-raising scheme?

    I believe that it was just a poorly run contest, but you have shown zero proof that it was above-board.

    You say that one of the judges was at the conference, but was that announced at the time? Given that in the previous thread on this topic, many who were at the conference appeared not to know it, nor did those who submitted photos, what good is it to tells people NOW that the judge was there if no one at the conference knew he was the judge?

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    1,904

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    I announced the judges names in late April or early May. He had a name badge on, he was a presenter on several panels, he hung around the conference registration desk and was available most of the day Friday and Saturday.

    The prints that were displayed were in a large lounge we set up that had an entry from the main hotel lobby and from the trade show area. There were people milling around in there all day Saturday and Sunday. We had one or two people at the conference registration desk from Thursday afternoon until the conference closed on Sunday to answer and and all questions - such as where are the prints displayed, is one of the judges here, where is he, what was his name again, etc., etc.

    I was fine giving out the winners names and showing their photos and showed the GP winner and identified him on the conference program. Then the first abusive thread started by someone who did not win accusing myself and the judges of selling out, committing fraud, rewarding junket work, etc. Then people on this forum went online and hunted down the GP winner and put up a lot of personal info about him. This was way outside the bounds of any reasonable behavior. When the other winners saw what was going on they asked me not to let that happen to them.

    I worked with a group of people on this event all the way through. They have all been part of every decision and feel we are proceeding correctly. The participants of the conference almsot universally enjoyed the experience, the winners are happy and their wishes are being respected..

    steve simmons

  7. #37
    jetcode
    Guest

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons View Post
    As I have said I do not believe there is any real interest in this except for some to keep bashing an event that they have been negative towards from the beginning.
    I thought of entering that contest and to be honest I just wanted to see who won and with what image, that's all. Why is that such a difficult task? People sneer, let them, and live to a higher ideal.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    1,904

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Joe

    I really do understand your desire to see the winners and I am not unsympathetic to your interest. However, I have been asked by the winners to not let them be subjected to the kind of nonsense that has gone on here.

    steve

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12

    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Looking into this further, it seems possible there might be a problem with this contest at its root. That is unless Mr. Simmons has all of his paperwork in order. There is a thing called the Colorado Deceptive Trade Practices Act. By charging an entry fee, this contest could very well fall into the territory of sweepstakes and gaming laws requiring paperwork, licensing and oversight. In fact, there are strict rules and guidelines concerning these types of things in all 50 states. Knowing what an upstanding businessman Mr. Simmons is, I would imagine he has all this paperwork in order and can therefore provide proof to this community once and for all that there was no deception. If not, someone wth some legal background might want to look into this further. To keep things above board it also might be a good idea if any one who entered this contest and feels they have been deceived could contact the Colorado State Attorney General's office to make a complaint. Unfortunately due to Mr. Simmons' lack of cooperation or disclosure, it looks as though legal channels might be the only recourse dissatisfied entrants have. Maybe then this matter could be put to rest.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
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    Re: Foto 3 competition - follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons View Post
    Joe

    I really do understand your desire to see the winners and I am not unsympathetic to your interest. However, I have been asked by the winners to not let them be subjected to the kind of nonsense that has gone on here.

    steve
    So the winners *ALL* of a photography contest to a major magazine and major photography show are going to receive absolutely zero publicity. How does that work, exactly? Fine, don't announce it here, announce it on APUG, or your website, or phot.net or wherever, but I think the people who paid to submit to a contest have a right to know who won.

    You say the grand prize winner's information was spread out all over the internet.. yet no one here can seem to recall any of this.

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