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Thread: Movements!

  1. #1

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    Jun 2008
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    Movements!

    I know some people might go Arghh not this again!

    But one thing I think this site lacks is a search facility, I have been through quite a few pages and numerous threads, but I found myself getting more and more confused!

    I am new to this, I have only ever shot two negatives using a Large Format Camera, and that was at college!

    Since then I have obtained a Toyo View 45E

    Tomorrow I plan on popping out to photograph some Architecture, as I need to complete a college assignment on this subject and as you can imagine I need to use a number of movements to make sure the image is perfect.

    I may be limited as I only have a 150mm lens and a 90mm lens!

    Can anyone offer me some words of wisdom, or advice on things to watch before I waste some film!

    I am experianced with medium format photography, but I feel that using this as a larger version of a 35mm camera etc is wrong as this camera is capable of a lot more!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Virginia Beach, Va.
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    Re: Movements!

    There is a search facility. It is the fourth link from the right in the darker blue band under your name in the top right corner.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Westport Island, Maine
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    Re: Movements!

    For all movements, thre are two things to remember:

    1. Focus on the Far, Move for the Near
    2. The Lens Looks, the Back Backs

    So, rock in the foreground, sky far away? Focus on the sky (bottom of the inverted image on the ground glass), tilt until the rock is in focus. Sky goes a little out of focus, so adjust, then adjust tilt, etc. It's a little dance. When near and far are both focused, lock down focus and tilts. Middle fuzzy? Stop down until it looks sharp, then one more stop.

    Rear tilt makes the rock loom, front doesn't. Try it both ways, and compare proofs.

    Lens Looks: Tilting the lens forward (towards the rock) makes the rock sharper. Tilting the Back Back (away from the rock) gets the rock sharper.

    "Swings are tilts on their sides," said good departed friend Ted Harris. I don't use swings much, myself, so it's OK for me to think about them as a variation on what I do use frequently. I use rear tilt, I like looming rocks.

    Remember, you can see it all on the groundglass, and fiddle until it's right.

    Good luck!
    Bruce Barlow
    author of "Finely Focused" and "Exercises in Photographic Composition"
    www.brucewbarlow.com

  4. #4

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    Jun 2008
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    Brownhills, Walsall, England
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    Re: Movements!

    Thanks for that, it's nice to understand the basics!

    All being well if the weather hold up, I should be putting into practice all that I have learned!

    Thank You!

  5. #5
    Scott Schroeder's Avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    Re: Movements!

    Don't forget to check out the main lf info site
    For movements, here's a page.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    4,590

    Re: Movements!

    Don't expect to use large movements -- if needed at all they will be miniscule for 4x5, especially with your 90mm lens. Hyperfokal distance for f:16 is 11 feet, giving sharp images within the depth of field from 5.5 feet to infinity.
    Wilhelm (Sarasota)

  7. #7
    Joanna Carter's Avatar
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    Re: Movements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Barlow View Post
    1. Focus on the Far, Move for the Near
    Having said that, I have found that to be good for base tilt but the reverse applies to using axis movements or, at least, it seems to require fewer iterations to achieve a good result.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2002
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    1,031

    Re: Movements!

    For architecture, you'll most likely want the rear standard -- the film plane -- to be perfectly vertical; that will make the vertical lines in the building remain vertical in your photos. Use front tilt if you need to vary the plane of focus to include a foreground area, but no rear tilts lest you lose your verticals. Shifts and swings as needed for framing and/or to achieve focus.

    Last thing: trust the groundglass. If you don't already have a good dark cloth, I recommend getting or making one. Use a loupe, 3x to perhaps 6x, to check critical focus and spend time getting that right. The LF groundglass is the original WYSIWYG interface...

  9. #9
    lenser's Avatar
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    Tim from Missouri
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    Re: Movements!

    For architecture, remember to keep your camera back level with the building (parallel to the walls) unless you want to force perspectives This will keep all lines from 'keystoning'. If the buildings are tall, use lens rise and camera position to get the top of the building in the image area. If it is really tall and the camera's limits on simple lens rise wont get it all, you can tilt the whole camera upward, re-level the back by tilting it, do the same with the front standard and that extends the lens rise. If available, a bag bellows will make these movements much easier.

    You will be using the 90mm for this and all lenses have an image circle that they throw. Some are very limited, and some are very wide field (even for lenses of the same focal length), allowing for more movements, so check your ground glass for corner cut off called vignetting. As you stop the lens down, the field of view expands a bit, so be sure to study the corners of the ground glass with the lens at shooting aperture. If vignetting is occurring, all you can do is back up your position and lower the lens rise until you get both the height of the building and eliminate the vignetting.

    An important hint is to move the front (lens) standard to the front of the monorail and focus with the back standard. This makes sure that you don't get the rail in the bottom of the photo. This will happen with extreme WA lenses (65, 58, and 47mm) but can happen with the change in camera geometry that I just described even with much longer lenses if the front standard is farther back on the rail. On a monorail, you can then move the tripod block forward to reposition the center of gravity over the tripod and help avoid vibrations.

    Another very useful camera movement is the lens shift (as described as being rise and fall on it's side). There are times when the perfect view of the room or building is from a spot that you can't physically get to or is blocked by a pillar or some other element, or the reflection of you and your camera will appear in windows or mirrors. You can often set up within a couple of feet of the "best" spot and then shift the lens to the side to get the same area of view, but avoiding the reflection or obstruction.

    Lens tilts wont come into play very often in architecture, except for the whole camera tilt situation described above. This is because when you are off parallel, it will change the planes of focus and possibly leave either the top or bottom of the scene out of focus on a straight up and down building. (If you want to have part of the scene out of focus for creative reasons, that's how it's done.)

    However, the tilt counterpart, swing, will be useful when you are off to one side of a building or room and working with one facade that recedes and needs to stay in focus throughout. By swinging the lens standard (rotating it on a horizontal plane around the central axis) you can bring all points on that plane into focus. Just remember that this is useful on one facade only as it will toss the other side of the building completely out of focus. If both need to stay in focus, you've got to center your movements and rely on depth of field to carry focus to all points.

    When you get the chance, get Steve Simmon's Book "Using the View Camera" for a very comprehensive look at camera movements and overall technique. Two other really great view camera books are "The View Camera" by Harvey Shaman and Kodak's book "Photography with Large Format Cameras". All should be available through Amazon.

    Good luck with your project and let us see the results.

    Tim
    "One of the greatest necessities in America is to discover creative solitude." Carl Sandburg

  10. #10

    Join Date
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    Westport Island, Maine
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    Re: Movements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna Carter View Post
    Having said that, I have found that to be good for base tilt but the reverse applies to using axis movements or, at least, it seems to require fewer iterations to achieve a good result.
    Cool! I have no experience with axis tilts.

    Base vs. axis tilt discussions border on the religious. Suffice to say that I learned base tilts, and that's how they work best. And base tilts are VASTLY superior to axis tilts!

    Use what works, I say.
    Bruce Barlow
    author of "Finely Focused" and "Exercises in Photographic Composition"
    www.brucewbarlow.com

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