Film Flatness: The use of different sizes of smaller film inside a larger holder?

[audioexcels]

I wasn't sure about the best way to title this subject, but it is one that has struck my curiousity recently. Before asking the question, I have mentioned and have seen mentioned many times about using different sizes of film inside a film holder that is specified for a given format. For example, Joe (Jetcode) mentioned how with a 4X10 holder, you can shot 4 by any size smaller than 10. I have used Joe as an example because 4X10, like other panoramic formats of the 1:2.5 ratio can give a load of different choices when inserting the 4" part of the sheet.

I have also been told by a very experienced and exceptionally intelligent photographer of every format ever made practically, that the long side of the holder, in Joe's case, the 10 side of a 4X10 holder, is very critical for keeping the film flat.

1) For those that do or have done random sizes within your format/s of choice, be it 4X8 in a 4X10 holder, or 2.5X4 in a 4X5 holder, etc. etc.

2) What do you do in order to maintain film flatness?

3) Can you achieve as good of a film flatness as you can using the format's full sheet of film?

4) Last and not least, how critical is that long side of a holder in maintaining proper film flatness as opposed to only having the film loaded in on the film's rails?


Thought this would be an interesting topic since I have not seen it discussed and it may serve some well who do like to experiment with different sizes within the format holder of choice.

Thanks!

[Gene McCluney]

If you are actually using real "sheet film" , rather than cut-down aerial film, the thickness of the true "sheet film" working against the emulsion side slight curl will hold itself satisfactorily flat when just using the film rails, for general purpose photography. It should not need to be "clamped" on all 4 sides.

[j.e.simmons]

Some folks tape the film in place. I think Ole once wrote of sticking film into a plate holder with jam.
juan

[audioexcels]

If you are actually using real "sheet film" , rather than cut-down aerial film, the thickness of the true "sheet film" working against the emulsion side slight curl will hold itself satisfactorily flat when just using the film rails, for general purpose photography. It should not need to be "clamped" on all 4 sides.

Yep. Only real sheet emulsions from Ilford to Slide Film, etc.

[audioexcels]

Some folks tape the film in place. I think Ole once wrote of sticking film into a plate holder with jam.
juan

I have heard many speaking about taping the film, but don't you lose the purpose of getting the size you want? Lets take an example. Lets say someone shooting 7X17 wants a 7X11 image. They want the full sheet of 7X11 placed into the rails of the 7X17 holder. How do you tape it down so you achieve the complete 7X11 negative? I suppose one could tape the very finest edges of the top/bottom of it, but seems like a bit of a hassle in a way to get the tape precisely cut and placed down so you lose as little of the 11" side of the neg.

[Richard K.]

OK, I've actually done the 7x11 thing in a 7x17 holder and the following worked great. I used double-sided (but removable! Scotch sells these) tape to tape down a 6.5" "stop" with bevelled edge at the correct 11" distance away from the flap end and used the flap to secure that end of the film in the traditional way. The bevelled stop secured the other edge of the 11" expanse. The rails, of course, did the usual with the 7" expanse. This worked fine with the only drawback being that you use the extreme 11" of the holder (not the centre). The GG is marked with a vertical line 11" from the left edge to show the correct image location. If you want to use the 11" centered in the 17" film holder, that's much tougher to do and may require taping the film down. What I did required a minimum (and temporary, reversible) of alteration. The associated danger in all of this is that you may like the 7x11 format so much that you may order a dedicated 7x11 camera. I did.

[Glenn Thoreson]

Just use Ole's method of sticking it on with jam. Don't use the lumpy kind. It doesn't hurt the film and it washes right off in a pre soak. Or, you can lick it.

[audioexcels]

Just use Ole's method of sticking it on with jam. Don't use the lumpy kind. It doesn't hurt the film and it washes right off in a pre soak. Or, you can lick it.

LOL!!!

[Frank Petronio]

Sinar even made a stick tape holder. Test and verify the tape.

of course you could always make a vacuum holder ;-)

[Kuzano]

Some folks tape the film in place. I think Ole once wrote of sticking film into a plate holder with jam.
juan

Actually, jelly works much better than jam. Jam usually contains some of the fiber and seeds of the fruit flavoring the jam. jelly on the other hand is boiled down and strained to more of a gelatin consistency... hence "jelly".

My experience with using jam has usually exascerbated curvature and lead to non-flat film. Ole's results may vary depending on his flavor basis. I have used Strawberry, Apricot and Marmalade.

I certainly feel that most issues and processes for loading film for flatness are totally in the dark.