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Thread: Sinar Norma Adjustments

  1. #11

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    Jul 2006
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    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Have owned several 4x5 Normas over the years. Each one differed by just a little when taken apart, obviously improvements were incorporated over the span of the camera. Whenever I worked on one. I would do it inside a 20x24 inch processing tray. Also had some 8x10 sheets of cardboard that were coated with several strips of double stick tape. It was easy to keep the parts in order of disassembly and write down notes next to the parts. The worst looking Norma I ever acquired was one that was in a Studio fire. Acquired it for very little money because it looked to be totally destroyed. Amazingly after cleaning up the large amount of smoke damage, everything on the camera worked just fine. On the other hand once acquired a front standard that looked to be in almost mint condition. When I finally got around to closely looking at it months later, I discovered that someone had tried to fix it and it was really only good for parts.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    24

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
    I can't stress enough the need for some decent tools, as described in the CLA material. The gib screws were the hardest to get out - on my camera they needed acetone (nail polish remover) several times, and then I could back them out, slowly. In your specific case, I think you may need to be careful to not get any acetone on the plastic (Delrin possibly) pinion (Zahnrad) of the rail.

    It seems to me there was ongoing improvements and changes to the Norma - mine has the same focus locks as yours, but uses metai pinions. Later on Sinar did away with the focus locks. Mine is earlier (M61/62) and is comparatively in good condition (everything is still there and working). I have never seen the rear standard on the left (right one is the international back), perhaps a special order?

    I am in the middle of my own process, but a few thoughts along the way:

    In addition to good tools and lubricants, you need patience and the ability to think first and then act. Be careful with applying too much force to anything. It can be time-consuming to clean the parts, and then adjusting them back, so that they work smoothly. This part "how it should feel like" is partly a personal preference, but it is also hard to really know, never having touched a Norma that is correctly adjusted. Be prepared to spend a good bit of time fiddling until it is done.

    My experience is that it is easy to overdo the grease - thin emulsion of grease is the key. Otherwise you may have to clean up things (which is less effective once things are put together). Put the clean parts in containers, in one place, so that you don't have to spend time looking for things. Unless you have a lot of available spare time, it may be more relaxed to do a bit of work at a time over several days. It's easy to get stuck for an extra hour, trying to fit and adjust the pieces, at least when one is doing it for the first time.

    The final adjustments (square, level and parallel) will be the ultimate patience test, I think ... not there yet.

    As for the professionals, there should be someone in Paris that was recommended to me (I have to look that up) and I have someone who may be willing to do work in Munich. PM me if you want go that route instead.

    Apart from that - good luck with the adventure, if you feel like trying. And ask all the questions you may need to - there is a bunch of very knowledgable people around here. I don't claim to be an expert - I am just a medium-sized frog with a screwdriver.
    Thank you Jimi for your help!
    It will be a while before I have all the tools and materials to start working with the CLA. And above all to find the time and rest (and I haven't taken a single picture yet). These adjusting screws are also a bit rusty on my camera. Very interesting the note regarding the material "Delrin". Regarding the address in Munich, I will send you a PM.
    regards
    NormaN

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    24

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Have owned several 4x5 Normas over the years. Each one differed by just a little when taken apart, obviously improvements were incorporated over the span of the camera. Whenever I worked on one. I would do it inside a 20x24 inch processing tray. Also had some 8x10 sheets of cardboard that were coated with several strips of double stick tape. It was easy to keep the parts in order of disassembly and write down notes next to the parts. The worst looking Norma I ever acquired was one that was in a Studio fire. Acquired it for very little money because it looked to be totally destroyed. Amazingly after cleaning up the large amount of smoke damage, everything on the camera worked just fine. On the other hand once acquired a front standard that looked to be in almost mint condition. When I finally got around to closely looking at it months later, I discovered that someone had tried to fix it and it was really only good for parts.
    Hello Greg
    Thank you for your valuable advice. A good idea to secure the parts with double-sided adhesive tape and to make notes on the cardboard as well, I will do it 1: 1.
    I think it's best to practice the CLA with the reserve back (in the previous post in the photo on the left) ...
    regards
    NormaN

  4. #14
    Between here and there
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    Sep 1999
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    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by NormaN View Post
    Thank you Jimi for your help!
    It will be a while before I have all the tools and materials to start working with the CLA. And above all to find the time and rest (and I haven't taken a single picture yet). These adjusting screws are also a bit rusty on my camera. Very interesting the note regarding the material "Delrin". Regarding the address in Munich, I will send you a PM.
    regards
    NormaN
    Perhaps it is a good idea to set the camera up and try to make at least a few test photos, just to see what is working and not. After doing that, it may be easier to tell us which problems you have had, if any. Mine worked fine out of the box so to speak, although it was a bit too stiff.

    Testing things out on the extra rear standard is a good idea, since you can switch the groundglass assembly from one standard to the other, when you have a cleaned and adjusted one ready.
    "Be still and allow the mud to settle."

  5. #15

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    The original Norma instruction book here. This is a later vintage copy, 1967. Figure 18 shows the basic lubrication points which are easy to get to and should be renewed every so often. I have not found a need to go completely into my Normas; they all seem to be OK

    https://www.cameraeccentric.com/stat...fs/sinar_1.pdf





    This is the link I use to get to Philip Morgan's instructions regarding CLA on the Norma.

    http://doczz.net/doc/2811502/the-rou...nd-adjusting-t

    Does anyone know how to get to the video? Many Thanks!
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  6. #16
    Between here and there
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    514

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Unkefer View Post

    Does anyone know how to get to the video? Many Thanks!
    The link above in my earlier post contains links to the video -> https://tlrgraphy.com/2012/09/24/the...rma-cla-guide/
    "Be still and allow the mud to settle."

  7. #17

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
    The link above in my earlier post contains links to the video -> https://tlrgraphy.com/2012/09/24/the...rma-cla-guide/
    OK. See it now and downloaded. Thank You!
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    near Seattle, WA
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    949

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Also there is this link to Sinar-specific info (much contribution from European users in English) and section dedicated to Norma:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/sinarusers/

    This is where I found the info that links to the CLA video:
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/sinar...8924015631175/

  9. #19
    Between here and there
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Sweden & Germany
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    514

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Thanks Jerry - it is good that the fb group is open without having to log in. That signal-to-noise ratio ... gosh.

    Hopefully, once I get my second camera, the "project" Norma into shape, I'll contribute some thoughts in a new thread. Would love to see a guide for the pan/tilt head too, but I am keep off mine for the time being, since it works as intended.
    "Be still and allow the mud to settle."

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    24

    Re: Sinar Norma Adjustments

    Hello again

    On closer inspection I found that the clamping screws/rods for the front and rear tilting mechanism are not the same length (see photos)
    One of these screws is so long (the one in the middle) that the thread cannot be turned far enough. The back part tilts uncontrollably out of the zero position. I changed the screws and saw that the excess length caused the problem.

    I could correct that by shortening the screw at the back ...

    Isn't it strange that these screws / rods vary so much?
    Has anyone experienced something similar?


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