No Trespassing

[tim810]

Shoot first ask questions later!!!

Up untill now I have been really good about asking to photgraph than shooting. My attitude has recently changed. This change took lots of coaxing though. It first started about 3 years ago when I was shooting an old barn off the side of the road. i was on the side of the road shooting into someone elses pasture at an old barn. I had my 8x10 out and just finished firing off two 4x10s (in this case I didn't ask due to me being on the side of the road and I had no idea who owned the barn(no houses in site)). At this point a truck came up and asked me 1.What I was doing? 2. Why am I pointing that thing at their property? 3. And My mistake, Why is my tripod leg over their fence? Well I went and explained that I was taking a photo of their lovely barn and field. 4. Why would you want to take a photo of that barn? Well, i like the asthetics of where the sun is hitting the barn, and the stubs from last years corn sticking up out of the snow. They continued to say that tey wanted the negs and I wasn't entitled to the photos due to my tresspassing. I said that was not true and just continued packing up. Long story short I have a beautifull photo of a place that One Tripod leg TRESPASSED.

Just recently, I wanted to shoot an old mill that is near where I live. Its beautifull. Most of it is redone, but there is some of the old mill barely standing. I went and talked to the building manager and politely asked if I was allowed to pass through the fenced in area as long as there where no locks or other things keeping me out. The building manager was supprisingly generous and even showed me a map of places I could go and places I could not go. I went on my merry way and took a couple of shots.
A month later I had some people interested in comming up to shoot mills with me. I went on and called the Manager of this mill and let him know I was going to be there.
We showed up and there where locks on all the gates and tape around holes that used to be in the fence. Luckily there was a maitenece man around and he let us in and we where able to shoot. That is where the first shot came from (Mill 3s).

The next mill we went to I had been to many times and just stayed on the boundries. There was plenty to shoot without going past the NO TRESPASSING. No one ever bothered me. This time I saw a hole. It was late in the day (400) and the light was burning away. I figured I would, with two other people pass through the hole. This brought us to the burned down (10ish years ago) part of the mill. I was walking along and noticed that there was a flicker of light bouncing off of somthing inside the mill. The door was open and we went in. This is where we found the last few shots of the day. (Mill 1&2) They where beautifull. Half the building was gone and let all the sunlight in from the side and lit the place up like a kalidescope. BEAUTIFULL. Well the sun started going down and we decided to get back to the cars. When we returned the security guard had just asked the shooters that stayed on this side of the fence to just make sure that they ask before shooting next time.

Everywhere people are trying harder and harder to keep you out of places 9x out of ten the awnser when I ASK is a big "NO". For some things I think it is just polite to ask (someones house, farm, etc..). But for others just "Shoot and ask questions later" .

Sorry about my ramble. It has kinda been eating at me. I would be interested to see others point of view of this matter. Also some images reguarding this matter would be nice.


Cheers Tim

[Frank Petronio]

Nice photos.

I don't go onto private owners land but old factories are fair game and their guards will always say no... I usually act all contrite and polite but I get the shot first... No reasonable cop is going to arrest a middle-aged taxpayer for talking a LF photo, they'll give a warning and be pissed at the whining complainer for wasting their time.

Rent a cops have almost no power, all they can do is intimidate you into leaving.

We should all meet up at Bethlehem Steel sometime and overrun the place ;-)

[Ted Harris]

Tim,

I always ask first when it is possible to do so, just common respect. When I can't ask I leave a business card and a note. I often give folks a print of their building that I have shot. This has resulted in lots of business for me.

Looking at it the other way, as a property owner with some nice wooded acreage and a couple of interesting buildings I would get upset and unpleasant if someone setup a tripod without asking. First, I work hard to keep my land protected and peaceful for the wild creatures that I share the space with and to keep them safe from hunters; letting photographers roam at will without asking could also be construed as an invitation to hunters. Second, you wander on my land and even though you may be trespassing if you fall into a hole or trip over an old stump you might sue me and you could win. Third, not everyone is as careful as you may be and I'd rather not have folks tramping over area that may be sensitive to me but not to others; I know where the turkeys nest, you don't. Ask first and I will almost always welcome you and none of the problems above are encountered.

[Allen Rumme]

The number of photographers who think "No Trespassing" signs do not apply to them absolutely astounds me. I know quite a few photographers who think nothing of entering posted, private property to make pictures. I have yet to figure out what part of "No Trespassing" they don't understand? There is the issue of respect for another's private property, which gets violated every time someone trespasses. Most of us want others to respect our private property, yet some of us don't seem to believe that we are required to behave in a similar fashion when it comes to someone else's property. If a property owner has had to deal with trespassers it is little wonder that photographers who ask for permission quite often get told no.

Sorry, but this business of trespassing is a real hot button for me and, imho, those who trespass make all photographers look bad and make it increasingly difficult to gain access to places we'd like to work.

I'll be quiet now...........

[tim810]

As far as Private land goes I will not walk on anyones property (ie... fields, pastures). If there is something I want to shoot on someones' land and I can't do it from the road I will always ask (even chruches). For the exact reason that Ted pointed out. I don't know the dynamics of a persons property. The case of the barn, it was a tripod leg that was just over their property line. Now, I am just very meticulous about where I put everything.
As far as abandoned property Mills etc... The people that the land owners (city or private) are trying to KEEP OUT seem to be getting in any way (graffiti, etc.). This was the first place I went into without initial permission.

There is one place I am itching to shoot and it is impossible. The CT state hospital in Norwich CT has been closed for quite some time now. I drive by it on my way to work every day. One day I pulled off to the side of the road near a particular scene that is amazing. I can't even describe it. 2 minuets after I pulled over I had 3 security vehicles surrounding me. They said I could not even point my camera at the bldg (I made sure I was not on the property). I kindly went on my way. Later that day i called the dept of public works in CT and emailed the commisioner. He told me that the security has no right to say what I point my camera at as long as I am not tresspassing. Soon after I went and set up, with the email in hand, and started to get ready to shoot. The security pulled their trucks in front of my camera and continued on about my not being allowed to shoot. I proceded to show them the letter, of which they disreguarded and would not move!!! I am trying to get this shot and failing miserably. The security may not be able to physically stop me from pointing my camera at the building, but they can make it difficult to shoot my subject.
I agree that it is best to ask permission. When it comes to abandoned mills and other like subjects, chances are you will be turned down. Thats where IMHO, "Shoot first and ask ?s later."

[Sal Santamaura]

Lack of respect for other people's property, including trespass against real property, is just one manifestation of the lack of respect for other people. It's widespread, continuously worsening and reprehensible. I've no hope things will improve.

I drive no faster than posted speed limits and obey other traffic laws. Guess I'm outside the mainstream on all accounts.

[Michael Graves]

We should all meet up at Bethlehem Steel sometime and overrun the place ;-)

When are we meeting? Can you give me directions from Vermont?

[davidb]

To me, I think there is a difference between privately owned "no trespassing" and city owned.

If I see something from the side of the road that I want to photograph, I probably would but I will never cross a fence line here in NM that is marked no trespassing.

But if it is a city or state owned property, I will take my chances. Many of us New Mexicans (even the old ones ) have "walked" through the huge hole in the fence at the Albuquerque rail yard. This is an amazing structure that is being featured in the new TV series "Sarah Connor Terminator Thing" as well as many movies including the Transformers. The first time I got in was via a security guard who told me to make sure I go onto the roof to see the view of the city. The next time I went in, I walked through the hole in the fence only to find the gate wide open 10 feet away from the hole. I spend an hour or so making the pictures, and then I leave.

Here in ABQ, we also have a shopping mall that is barely open. I have no idea why they don't just lock the doors already. Anyway, I went in with my Hasselblad and a 40mm lens. Set the tripod up, took my picture and then got yelled at and chased out by a 70 year old "guard". Told me that I better burn my negs and that he was recording my license plate. Oh well.

I got a nice photo out of it.

[Sal Santamaura]

To me, I think there is a difference between privately owned "no trespassing" and city owned...

What is the difference? Why is there a difference? How can this be rationalized? If you injure yourself while trespassing on city-owned property, will you bring no legal action against the city?

[Henry Ambrose]

So when do we get the thread titled:

"I wanted some film but it cost too much so I shoplifted it"?