Any way to speed up LF shots? (Family patience question)

[Chris Werner]

The following is a question I posted in the MF forum. One of the responses sugg ested that the monorail was part of my problem and that if I used a field camera I might not feel the same. I have been planning on building or buying a field version, but didn't ever contemplate a gain in speed that would help enough to g et my wife and kids to hang out whilst I set up shots. I'm very new at LF so th ere's undoubtedly a lot I'm missing, but my impressions have been dictated by wh at I read here and elsewhere.

What I'd like to know is whether my assumption that LF is inherently a *lot* slo wer than MF is valid, or is there a way to alter my approach to speed up when th at is necessary? Said another way, does it have to be a lot slower composition and photographic process, or is that in part a function of my equipment or exper ience (i.e., lack of)?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

--------------------------- Disclaimer - I know this is ultimately a personal decision, but I would value yo ur experience and input. I have also exhaustively read the archives. My photogra phic interests primarily involve family/travel (color) and landscape/outdoor arc hitecture (mostly black and white developed myself, but some color as well). I s tarted with 35mm (currently a Nikon F100) and have added a 4x5 monorail. I love the 4x5 (for the landscape/outdoor architectural), but the reality of the time involved for a shot restricts its use to when I'm alone (rare) or with a p hotography buddy (rarer) as my wife and kids aren't *that* patient. The Nikon ha s ended up being used for the family/travel aspect, and for that it is really ov erkill.

To the point. I'm thinking about selling the Nikon and replacing it with two cam eras: a point and shoot for the family/travel piece (all I really need for that) and a medium format to carry selectively for those times when I am hiking or so mething with the family and can do some more serious shooting, but still can't j ustify the 4x5. The Nikon doesn't work for me here because I'm not satisfied wit h the grain and tonality from 35mm at 8x10 and 11x14 even with good film and tec hnique (TMax 100, tripod, etc.)

So my request is for your input on format (645 vs 6x7 vs 6x9 - 6x6 doesn't do mu ch for me) and camera in my situation: but also, does what I'm thinking make sen se to you. I will sometimes, but not always, carry a tripod, so I want handholda bility (I may, though, decide to use a monopod religiously if I'm convinced it w ould help measurably). I want a readily discernable improvement in picture quali ty over 35mm, but don't need the ultimate given I have the 4x5. Weight is a fact or - less is more (which is really the theme of this question as I am trying to put together an equipment package that will keep me shooting as much as my sched ule permits), but I will judge that in the context of usability (specifically wi ll I use it) and picture quality.

I think that's it. Thanks in advance for your help! -----------------------------

[Sean Billy Bob Boy yates]

Edward Weston could go from a closed camera case to an exposed negative in 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Yes, there are ways to get things fast - the right gear, enough time spent using it to where it becomes like driving your car or getting food from the plate into your mouth, and keeping everything as simple as possible - one lens, knowing the correct exposure for a sunny day with no snow on the ground, etc. etc. etc.

I would not argue that a monorail is necessarily any slower than a field camera - yes design is important, but so is working with it. I'll bet someone who knows their Technikardan well could out-do old Ed'ard today.

There are ways to expidite things, little tricks, but I know my wife can barely sit still long enough for me to work, and we don't have any kids. There are some really nice 6 X 9 rangefinders out there - old Mamiyas, KoniOmegas and the new Fujis....

[M.]

Don't get a field camera, get an American 4x5 PRESS camera, such as a Crown Graphic. Decide on a single lens (135mm is what most people use), and load your film into Grafmatic holders. Use fast film and forget the tripod. Focus through the rangefiner, and learn to compose through the optical viewfinder rather than on the dim, upsidedown ground glass. Then, as Walker Eavns said, "Figure out your exposure in advance for sunny scenes and for the shade and GET GOING!"

[Doug Paramore]

Chris: It is always difficult to pick a camera for someone else because each of us has different preferences and working methods. However, while I was reading your post, I kept thinking "Speed Graphic Press camera". A Graphic would allow you to hand hold those quick shots, and would give you plenty of good negs if used on a tripod or monopod. The rangefinder is very quick on those ol' warhorses. If funds are available, I would opt for a used technical camera, which gives you most of the movements of the view camera in a hand-holdable package with a rangefinder. Either camera would let you interchange lenses with your monorail, although you may need to change lensboards. It has both front and rear movements. You should be able to find a used Linhof for the price of a medium format system. My suggestion if you want to go medium format is one of the rangefinder Fujis or a twinlens reflex, although the reflex is 2 1/4 square.

[Larry Huppert]

If your not going to be making use of camera movements, is there a good enough reason for thinking 4x5 in any form? How about the Mamiya 6 (only available used) or 7's? Both are small for their respective formats. The 7 also has some great wide angle lenses available, and its 6x7 negative should give you a significant step-up in tonality and apparent sharpness vs. 35mm. The ease of loading, processing, travel logistics and emulsion availability are also simplified with 120/220 roll film.

Regarding the setup/operating speed of a monorail vs. field camera... I can setup my monorail as fast (or faster) than my DLC. Monorail controls are usually much more straight forward than some field cameras. Indirect movements are rarely needed. I'd say in general the greater flexibility of the monorail may make it faster to operate, particularly if your trying to do something complicated.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The key isn't speeding up your process. You've got to slow down the wife and kids. If you can't get them enthusiastic about photography, how about birdwatching or sketching or mushroom hunting? My wife always has something to read and doesn't mind stopping, and as long as she's stopped, it might be a good time for an LF portrait, which she generally likes.

[Stefan.Dalibor]

Two remarks: <ul><li>You didn't tell which monorail you use - while it might be true that you could get faster by switching to a technical/press/field LF camera from a studio monorail (which has to be assembled/dissembled before/after shoot ing), I don't believe that you'll get faster than a Technikardan, Toyo VX, or (i n my case) Arca F line C - my camera is out of the bag (with a large lens alread y attached), on the tripod and ready to operate within about 30 seconds.</li> <li>I used a MF range finder (Fuji GW 690) extensively and exclusively for 3 yea rs, and switched to LF due to the limitations of this system - it's true this is a very light and small device (the complete kit is smaller than the 35mm equipm ent many people carry).But if you want to get decent pictures from it, in my experience you'll have to invest time: Use a tripod, frame/meter accurately etc .I finally switched to a (non-handholdable) LF system because I had to admit that less than 5% of the really nice pictures I got were done the `snapshot' st yle.I don't have experience with press cameras, but IMO at least for the Fuj i 6x9 RF, getting high quality from quick hand-held shots in architecture/landsc ape is a delusion... I believe also that this comes from the inherent limitation s of the RF concept, combined with the long focal lengths needed for larger than 35mm formats. If you really want to work faster, but with higher quality than 35mm, IMO a port able MF SLR system would serve better (Pentax 67, or Pentacon/Kiev as cheap alte rnative).</li></ul>

[John H. Henderson]

I don't know how you use your 4x5. I'll typically get to some location and set up the camera and carry it on the tripod. It is a Toyo 45A field camera, and although I've never used a monorail, it seems that with all the folding and putting on lenses and stuff, it would take more time to set up the field camera. In fact, I'm tempted to find some sort of case in which I can keep the camera open with a lens on it so it is ready when it comes out of the case. Anyway, my point is that I don't think you'll gain anything with a field camera. Maybe you'll lose time.

The time comes with levelling the tripod, inserting and removing holders, inserting and removing darkslides, opening the aperture, focussing the image, closing the aperture, setting the aperture, setting the shutter speed, etc., etc., and there are a few, if any, 4x5 cameras that can speed this up much, so you might be on the right track thinking 6x7 when you want better images than 35mm, but are limited in time. I've been in the same situation, and dream of getting a Mamiya 7II to slip between the Maxxum and Toyo 45A, but it is not high enough of a financial priority for me now.

Note that Bronica just introduced a 6x4.5 rangefinder at Photokina. I've requested info, but don't know if printed brochures or pricing is available for it yet. Wait [click click]...B&H is listing it for $1799 WITH 65mm lens, but not yet in stock. That's less than the Mamiya 7II body alone.

I've dabbled with MF and decided that I don't like 6x6 because it's just wasteful with "normal" paper sizes. I'd go 6x7 if image quality is paramount, or 6x4.5 if processing cost, etc. is an issue. Again, that's my personal opinion, but you see my reasoning.

Before reading the replies, I, like some of the other posters, was thinking "press camera" while reading your original post. If conditions let you hand hold, then this is about the fastest way you can go with 4x5. (See graflex.org for good info on press cameras). I think it's a good trade for your situation. Unfortunately, there aren't many new press cameras other than the rather expensive Linhofs, but there are plenty of used Graflex Graphics and Busch Pressmans available.

In fact, I'm thinking of getting a 2x3 Graphic with a rollfilm back to tie me over until I can get the Mamiya.

[adam friedberg]

you'll want a mamiya 7. since the II came out used ones are easy to find and not that expensive. it is the only camera, i think, which will satisfy your requirements. 645 is too small (except the contax - amazing image quality but too big a camera). fuji 690's are great but the rangefinder is not easy to work with, at least not as easy to focus as the mamiya. plaubel makina 67 would be perfect if not so delicate. 4x5 press/technical cameras are faster than fields or monorails but are still slower than using the mamiya and much less versatile - if you don't use movements, if you shoot mostly handheld, etc. (really, how often will you be in a situation with a press camera when you can shoot handheld? those i know who use and love their graphics never seem to handhold). the mamiya has great image quality, is lightweight, has a very good rangefinder, and is reliable. rent or borrow one. i'm not trying to turn you away from lf, it just sounds to me that it's not currently appropriate for your needs.

[michael_1487]

chris--

i just wanted to post as a speed-graphic user who has done handheld work with it (as well as tripod work).

i attempted a project about a track team i had been a part of. as i was on the team at the time, shooting and competing proved to be a huge problem. in terms of shooting, i found that i could shoot as quickly with the 4x5 as say my mamiya tlr. i wasn't as quick as with my nikon 35 gear. had i had graphmatic holders as one of the above posters suggested, i might have been even faster.

i think that if you are interested in hand-holding and absolute quality at the same time, then a mf rangefinder might be the best solution. if you want a quick setup lf camera for tripod work with occaisional hand-held work, then a graphic or other press camera would be ideal (unless you can afford a linhof tech, that might be even better...).

-m