foto3/VC Conference - merged thread

[sanking]

As to the "vociferous" anti digital crowd, I suppose you include me there and I don't know about the others but the reason I left was because Ross' silly censorship rules where he or the moderators have to "approve" your posts before they are posted to which (and I was told this by Ross himself) they would take a day or two to "approve" them so that the person would get discouraged and leave without them having to tell them to do so. Many left for this reason and not because they were "anti digital" and unhappy with the way APUG was.

Jorge,

I think you are indeed fairly "anti-digital". If this offends you, my apologies.

However, you were not the person on my mind when I wrote the previous message. You are in fact very knowledgeable about traditional methods. I was actually thinking of those persons who are almost totally ignorant of traditional photography, yet rail against everything digital.

Sandy

[Capocheny]

Holy cripes folks, it is the diversity in this art form that makes it interesting. Even though it is not my cup of tea I love looking at digital images or hear about digital negatives because it is important to keep ones eye's open to innovation in its purest form. I respect and admire all people that make images and anyone that slams others for not being like them just does not get it. Come to the conference because you are passionate about LF photography and expect to shake some hands and all will be very well.

Cheers!

Well spoken Michael...

Since this is the first time this collaboration is happening, it's really much too early to predict how the conference will go.

Bruce, it might not be as bad as you're thinking it could be.

Let's just hope that the guests attending will be open-minded enough to see the validity of both traditional and digital methodologies.

Cheers

[PS: People tend to behave and react differently when it comes to a face-to-face discussion as opposed to being totally annonymous on an internet forum.

I'll predict that people will get along with one another in the spirit of learning from each other.]

[Mike Castles]

Actually it really makes a lot of sense to pull these three together for several reasons:
1. The cost of putting one of these on is shared by 3 not 1 (that would be enough in my mind)
2. A broader group of speakers can promote/discuss different areas of photography
3. Attendance will be greater (I hope) with the ability to cover something (or nothing) at each one. In other words, we don't have to cut into the little time some of us have for photography and conference/workshops. There are only so many weekends and so much vacation.

This looks like a really big win/win in my eyes. AND it would be my guess that if not well attended, the wrong message could be sent to the very people we want to get our message to - that "film" and "photography" is doing well.

Really do not understand why some have issue with APUG, it is just a traditional film site and by its charter request no digital discussions - it has its place. This place is great because it has a good mix - I'm just glad that both are around. Now if there was really good alternative process site like LF forum I'd be set.

[Robert Hughes]

Here's a reality check from my neighborhood. Yesterday I went into the local arts center (Photoworks at Glen Echo Park) to use the b&w darkroom. On the walls are works of a 3 person show. Origination of one was a Holga, the other two unknown (artists did not specify). All shot color, used photoshop, and outputted to inkjet printers. Another recent solo show of b&w prints was mixed - some all digital, some film & photo paper; it was pretty easy to see up close which was which (and the film shots looked better), but from 3' or more they were equivalent, and digital origination worked well in low-light shots. I was speaking with the young lady running the lab, and we agreed that although we preferred working in the darkroom, the digital outputs looked really good; some had more of a job-print look, but others looked like photo prints. It's clear that hybrid photo processes are the norm nowadays.

[bob carnie]

Bruce
I am a sponsor of APUG and Hybrid and I think you would be quite suprised if you ever visited my shop.
What philosophy are you speaking of that is in my approach to photography?
I imagine Ted, Steve and Sean are trying to pull together a dynamic offering of workshops that photographers can pick and choose their flavor.
I met with Steve on my paticular road to Silver this spring and we seemed to get along quite nicely and I believe this idea is great.
This will allow for better rates on rooms, more capable people helping out before during and after the event.
The major Manufacturers of all of the stuff we use will see this as a very logical way of pulling their budgets together for showing their wares.
I would imagine a very top notch print competetion with a gallery showing that does not exclude any media process from being accepted.
It would be wonderful to meet people from different photographic historys , mingling and showing the strong points of their process , rather than this continuous *dig vs ang* bullshit that is present on APUG and Large Format Forums.
I drove through Colorado in the spring 2007 and I will definately be in Ft Collins in 2008, hope to see you there.

But I don't want to convert anyone. I think that people should use the processes with which they are most comfortable. If that process is end-to-end chemical photography, good on 'em. Most of the world's great photographs were made this way. It's a time honored approach and I don't have a problem with it, or with anyone who wants to work that way.


What's bugging me is that the APUG and Silver organizations don't share that philosophy. Not only do I not want to convert anyone, but I don't want them trying to convert me either.

What I'm worried about is a large and organized effort to push digital outside the tent. This is the kind of crap you have to consider in a merger when one group says "I want to include you" and another says "I want to exclude you" back. I'm just saying that the idea for this merger looks a whole lot like a merger with Microsoft. Software people learn the hard way what "Embrace and Extend and Extinguish" really means.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Bruce,

I missed you at the conference in Louisville. You should have come up and introduced yourself. It would have been nice to meet you in person.

-----


I think the plan is to have enough speakers on a wide enough variety of topics so that everyone should be able to find talks they are interested in attending. Why fret over what other people are doing? Pick your path through life and take it, but please, let others choose their own path. No point in using insignificant things like analogue/digital to divide an otherwise considerable group of photographers.


---Michael

[evan clarke]

Bruce,

I missed you at the conference in Louisville. You should have come up and introduced yourself. It would have been nice to meet you in person.

-----


I think the plan is to have enough speakers on a wide enough variety of topics so that everyone should be able to find talks they are interested in attending. Why fret over what other people are doing? Pick your path through life and take it, but please, let others choose their own path. No point in using insignificant things like analogue/digital to divide an otherwise considerable group of photographers.


---Michael

Well put Michael, why should anybody worry about something they are NOT doing??? ..Evan Clarke

[Bruce Watson]

I am a sponsor of APUG and Hybrid and I think you would be quite surprised if you ever visited my shop.What philosophy are you speaking of that is in my approach to photography?

I very carefully didn't mention anyone by name. I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about the groups called APUG and Silver. APUG has clearly stated that their reason for being is to support analog photography. Silver has clearly stated that their reason for being is to support silver halide photography. Membership in said groups implies support for said groups' aims and objectives.

I imagine Ted, Steve and Sean are trying to pull together a dynamic offering of workshops that photographers can pick and choose their flavor.

I have no doubt that Ted, Steve, and Sean and others have the best intentions. I'm just saying that what looks like a win-win on the surface might not be in the long run.

The major Manufacturers of all of the stuff we use will see this as a very logical way of pulling their budgets together for showing their wares.

Oh yes. Follow the money. Of course vendors like yourself would like to have one conference instead of two or three. Maybe we could fold this combined conference into Photo+Expo and just have that one conference instead of three or four smaller ones. Where does it end? And how does it serve the few LF photographers left in the world?

I thought the purpose of the View Camera Conference was to give LF people a place to meet that wasn't something like Photo+Expo. Maybe I'm wrong, again.

It would be wonderful to meet people from different photographic histories, mingling and showing the strong points of their processes, rather than this continuous *dig vs ang* bullshit that is present on APUG and Large Format Forums.

See, that's what I'm worried about. I'm afraid that APUG and Silver will bring their "digital vs. analog" shtick to this conference, not to mention their smaller format preference.

The common thread at the View Camera Conference used to be view cameras. But the common thread that keeps APUG and Silver together is photographic films, papers, chemistry, and darkroom work.

What I suspect is going to happen over a few years is that slowly buy surely LF will be pushed over into a corner of the tent. All things digital will be pushed outside the tent.

This conference has been a bunch of LF photographers getting together. What will it become? That's the question. And it's not up to me at all. If this is what Steve Simmons wants, that's OK. It is his conference after all. He can do with it what he will. I'm just trying to get people to think about it a little.

[bob carnie]

Bill
As I said you would be quite suprised if you came to my shop.
I happen to photograph with a large format camera, Medium Format *phase and film* and I print each and every day. I am a supporter of photograhy as it is a main passion in my life, and we do run workshops here, in fact this weekend we just finished an amazing one, using film , scan, lambda murals and today traditional printing.
I have first hand knowlege of what it takes to run a conferece (apugs first was held at my facility) and I know the pain and anquish Steve and Ted go through setting up one of these suckers.
Like minded people who have experienced this pain are all gung ho for this and I hope you don't think I am attacking you , but simply we have a very small niche market and combining forces in a sensible manner will benifit us all.
hope to see you in Ft Collins.
Bob

[Tim Hyde]

"What I'm worried about is a large and organized effort to push digital outside the tent." -Bruce Watson

Think about that for a moment.