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Thread: To loupe or not to loupe?

  1. #21

    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    When starting off I assumed the 'loupe cult' to be BS. Then I noticed that at 20x16 some prints weren't criticaly sharp. So, I bought a cheap loupe to test . . .
    First I would focus naked eye, til I was SURE I had nailed focus. Then I'd loupe it. 50% of the time I had to make some minor tweak. Shocking. So now I carry a Silvestri 6X (I think) loupe. It is fabulously clear and sharp. If I shoot chrome, it costs £2.20 a sheet, plus £2.50 to process- that's a total of £4.70 (or nearly 10 US dollars) every time I click the shutter. Why risk that shot to save 30 seconds??
    OKay- 90mm lens, f22, you'll have lots of dof, and it'll probably save your ass. But 360mm lens, f5.5, at 10 feet? There's NO dof. Why guess focus? Use a loupe.

    PS No. I'm not a loupe salesman

  2. #22
    Baxter
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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    I have been amazed and saddened by this thread.

    Isn't this the same brand of machismo and folly which has 35mm people claiming they can hand hold shutter speed much longer than the 1/(focal length) rule of thumb?

    In terms of both expense of film/processing, underutilisation of true resolution capability of LF lenses and time to set up the shot+shoot - correct use of the simple loupe offers a huge boost in performance for relatively little cost, time or effort and negligible weight in the bag.

    I hope that the non-loupe users refrain from posting about resolving powers of different LF lenses and edge effects of different developers.

  3. #23
    kev curry's Avatar
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    Smile Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    [QUOTE=Leonard Evens;251656]I seldom use a loupe. I use the near-far method you describe, and in most circumstances a loupe is not necessary. But there are circumstances where it can be helpful. When you determine the positions on the focusing knob corresponding to the near and far points, you are bound to make some errors. If the two points are uncertain, so will the point halfway in between. If these errors are small compared to the total focus spread, that uncertianty won't matter. But in some circumstances, this relative error is not small. This can occur if you are doing something like a facade of a buliding and near and far points are basially the same. Or it can happen with short foca length lenses no matter where in the scene the near and far points are. This will be particularly egregious if your focusing error is consistently in the same direction.

    You should try focusing on the same point several times and see how much the variation there is.
    Without a loupe, the variation along the rail could be a mm or more. That gets magnified on the focusing knob, but how much depends on the gearing.


    -"When starting off I assumed the 'loupe cult' to be BS".-

    I was on that road already but thanks to all I'm back on track and really getting the picture!


    When I printed 35mm I wanted big prints! With 5x4 Ive strangely not felt the need ''as yet'' to print bigger than 11x14 -the real test as said, for my loupless focussing!
    I'll also bare in mind the advice given for using the loupe in shoots with narrow DOF and selective focus, which Ive yet to do!
    I inherited an old beat up Paterson grain focus finder. I removed the lens housing and
    popped it-into a neat little plumbers fitting. After a little tweeking for focus I got it to suit my eye! Dont know its magnification? Or how that would compare with a proper loupe? But I'll 'see' how I get on! Any further advise welcome!

    As soon as the rain stops -here in the west of Scotland and the blanket of grey cloud lifts- the 5x4s in the bag and were off to have a fresh look at the world through a loupe! Thanks to all of you for all the great advice its been a real pleasure browsing through the posts.
    Best regards
    kev

  4. #24
    kev curry's Avatar
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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Can I please be clear about something!
    I had already started writing my last post -im very slow today- before I had read the post by Baxter. I in know way Quoted Leonards post to make any sort of point! I quoted
    Leonard because it resonated with me. O dear maybe I'm being paraniod
    Regards
    kev

  5. #25

    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Hey Kevin. Sun's out in the Hebrides (for once). Kinda windy though, which is more usual.

  6. #26

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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Unless you are very near-sighted yourself, you have no idea of how us near-sighted people see close-up w/o our glasses. You are just guessing...you have no idea of what it is like looking at something, in focus and sharp, at 3 to 4 inches from your eyes.
    LOLBWYNAY

    A loupe does the same thing for a normal eye's lens that a "close-up filter" does for a normal camera lens. But the myopic eye is like a normal lens with an extension tube, so what he sees through a loupe is exactly what we hyper-myopic folk see "normally."

    If a person with normal vision can focus as close as 10 inches, a 2x loupe gets him optically as close as 5 inches. What he sees is exactly the same as a myopic person who can see without glasses down to 5 inches.

    Personally, my own hypermyopia gets me down to 3 inches. But to use a loupe, I have to use my glases--in fact, the lower portion of my bifocals--to first correct my vision to "normal" then the loupe allows me to focus to the same magnification that I could have seen without any external lenses at all.

    Optical principles are optical principles.

  7. #27

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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Bradford View Post
    I have been amazed and saddened by this thread.

    Isn't this the same brand of machismo and folly which has 35mm people claiming they can hand hold shutter speed much longer than the 1/(focal length) rule of thumb?

    In terms of both expense of film/processing, underutilisation of true resolution capability of LF lenses and time to set up the shot+shoot - correct use of the simple loupe offers a huge boost in performance for relatively little cost, time or effort and negligible weight in the bag.

    I hope that the non-loupe users refrain from posting about resolving powers of different LF lenses and edge effects of different developers.
    The point made in the last sentence is very good. It's a point that's made over and over again by John Sexton in his workshops. If you don't have the basics right (such as focus in the case of this thread) then don't worry about the minutiae of cameras, lenses, tripods, etc. that are discussed so often in this forum, they're totally irrelevant to you.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  8. #28
    kev curry's Avatar
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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Colin Im glad your weathers good! Im sitting waiting to see if theres going to be a little weather window tonight for a shot Im trying to get of Lock Arklet with Ben Ime and Ben Vorlich as the back drop! I went the other night just before dusk and the light was extraordinary! I managed to set up and compose two shots, inspite of being eaten alive by 'the midges' but something wasnt right the shutter speed was to high, something was nagging me all the way home, but I new I had metered correctly! As I later discovered, during the horror of being eaten I some how managed to set the ISO of the meter to 3200 instead of 320......think that places the shadows on zone0! Bummer.
    Once I get a van on the road and make my much awaited trip to Skye for an extended break I can easily take a Calmac -criminally expensive ferry- from Uig and discover your beautiful Island with rock shoes and a 5x4!

    cheers
    kev

  9. #29
    kev curry's Avatar
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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    The point made in the last sentence is very good. It's a point that's made over and over again by John Sexton in his workshops. If you don't have the basics right (such as focus in the case of this thread) then don't worry about the minutiae of cameras, lenses, tripods, etc. that are discussed so often in this forum, they're totally irrelevant to you.
    I really do take this on board!
    Ps: I really admire the work of John Sexton!
    Cheers
    kev

  10. #30
    grumpy & miserable Joseph O'Neil's Avatar
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    Re: To loupe or not to loupe?

    Eleven or twelve years ago when I first moved in 4x5 (up from 35mm and 120) I never used a loupe. Now I always use one. Kinda a sad testament to getting older I suppose.

    I use two, well three loupes actually. First one was/is a Nikon loupe, also sold by Peak I think,with black tape wrapped around the bottom clear part (a tip I picked up off this forum). It's okay if on a budget.

    The second loupe I use, mostly for my mono-rail is a large Pentax loupe made for examining 120 negatives. It is about 2.25 to 2.5 inches in diameter (I do not have it sitting in front of me, so not exactly sure), and is very easey to use and look through. However it does not have a neck string, and I find it a bit too large for backpacking.

    The last loupe I use is one I bought used from the buy-sell forum off this site - a Schneider loupe. 6X? Anyhow, it is wonderful, small, and lives full time in my backpack with my Tachihara.

    Another reason why I personally use a loupe all the time is because I've changed my shooting. A couple years ago going through some old family portraits, I was looking at how - oh about 100 years ago or so - the old, bit portraits would have just the eyes and immediate area of the face near the eyes in focus. Now I know this was done becasue of the physical limitations of lenses, lighting, film speed, etc, etc, but it's a neat effect/technique.

    One thing I notice today, especially with digital imaging, is almost all photos anymore, everything is in focus. It's almost an unspoken rule in some quarters that everything in you image has to be focus, and you need depth of field a a mile deep.

    I find, depending on your shot, that sometimes deliberately having only the subject of your photograph in focus and everything else just slightly out of focus cane be quite effective. It's not quite shooting completely wide open (as seen in another thread on this forum) but rather only stopping down one or two stops - depending on your lens of course. To achieve this effect on my 90 or 105mm needs often just one stop down, while my 270mm sometimes 3-4 stops. Your mileage may vary.

    Anyhow, the point being, if you are not basing every shot on F22 or more, you really need a loupe for certain. I often wonder too if some focusing errors are easily overlooked if you make an issue of stopping down small on every shot. But I would reccommend both the use of a loupe -even an inexpensive one - and trying some shots with a very narrow depth of field. This is one neat effect that I find is hard to reproduce with digital cameras.

    joe
    eta gosha maaba, aaniish gaa zhiwebiziyin ?

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