Mystery Dagor: Weitwinkel-Dagor 1:9 15cm

[Uusilehto]

I received today three Dagors: 12.5cm f/6.8, 180/6.8 and the most exciting one, a Weitwinkel-Dagor 150/9

The other ones aren't really that exciting so I'll concentrate on the Weitwinkel one.

The only other Weitwinkel-Dagor marked lens I've seen is a 210mm f/9 Weitwinkel Dagor. The only mention I've found of this lens is on an eBay auction #110136534579 . It is indeed VERY similar to the one I purchased with the exception of being in a barrel.

I know there is a Zeiss line of Dagors with an aperture of f/9 but this says C.P Goerz Berlin. Could this be a prototype Goerz-designed wide-angle Dagor made just before the merging to Zeiss?

One thing about this lens annoys me a whole lot. It didn't come with a retaining ring. It's the same diameter as a #1 shutter (about 39mm) but with a slightly coarser pitch. A #1 retaining ring turns in about 2 turns before stopping. With the exception of the retaining ring, everything else is just fine. Lens elements are bright and shiny, speeds are accurate within half a stop and the aperture blades are clean.

Considering its apparent rareness, how much would it be worth? I don't have a 8x10 camera and even if I did, I probably wouldn't want to use this one on it. Besides, I'm not really into collectibles. I prefer to actually use my gear.

ANY opinions on this one are greatly appreciated. I tried searching for information but nothing turned up. Some mentions of a Goerz designed wide-angle Dagor but nothing beyond that.

Here's a picture of the lens. The first is just a shot with the other ones in it.

[Jack Flesher]

Weitwinkle = "Wideangle". It is my understanding this would be the predecessor to the more commonly marked "W.A." f9 Dagor. Later versions were single-coated. Stopped down, regular dagors cover about 80 degrees while the wideangle about 100. This 150 should cover 8x10 with a bit of room when stopped down past f22.

PS: It also looks like the cells are in very good shape, so even uncoated, this one should deliver pretty good image quality too -- congratulations!

[Uusilehto]

It is my understanding this would be the predecessor to the more commonly marked "W.A." f9 Dagor.

Yes, that was more or less what I concluded from my research. The thing that strikes as odd to me is that it is indeed from the C.P. Goerz Berlin era instead of being a Zeiss branded one.

PS: It also looks like the cells are in very good shape, so even uncoated, this one should deliver pretty good image quality too -- congratulations!

Thank you. I am trying to get a hold of an 8x10 camera for a few test shots. It's rainy today but I'll see what I can do with the 4x5 tomorrow.

[koidr]

Maybe you could hele me i got a lens with a 4x5 i bought is says w.a.dagor 3 5/8 F-8 c.p. goerz am. opt. co. #805020. Is this a good lens and will it cover 4x5. If you could hlep that would be great.

Thanks Dave

[Jack Flesher]

Maybe you could hele me i got a lens with a 4x5 i bought is says w.a.dagor 3 5/8 F-8 c.p. goerz am. opt. co. #805020. Is this a good lens and will it cover 4x5. If you could hlep that would be great.

Thanks Dave

Yes, it will cover 4x5 and is of similar performance to the 90 f6.8 angulon.

[Sven Schroder]

Hi all

Looking at it the Pictured lens in question, it is very similar to the Zeiss issue wide angle dagors of which I have 75mm 125mm and (180mm on the way).It seems to have been made at some crossover point in the merger and is different to the Goerz Am opt
F8 Issue which aparently has less coverage? and have minor differences in construction.

Regards
Sven

[Jan Pedersen]

Just sitting here with open mouth, are you buying Dagors in bulk these days?

[Uusilehto]

Just sitting here with open mouth, are you buying Dagors in bulk these days?

Not really. Found them on a local auction site 15€ each. Obviously, I snatched them all along with a universal iris diaphragm lens mount (about 85mm max opening) for 60€.

Reminds me of the time when I traded in a boring 2€ flea-market figurine (although actually worth about 80€) for a 2001 CLA'd Leica IIIf RD + 50/1.5 Summarit. Sold the Leica kit for 650€ and bought myself a Canon 1D (need a back-up DSLR for actual work). Life is good.

[Uusilehto]

Something interesting came up.
I have been successful in finding various mechanical patents in the past and figured that the lens just might be listed in the patent archives.
A bit of searching on the Google patent search turned out a 1927 patent filed by Franz Urban (of C.P. Goerz) on 21th of December, 1923.

I have the patent mirrored on my FTP, here: http://www.kolumbus.fi/uusilehto/dagorpatent.pdf

I believe it to be the same lens. Aperture ratio of 1:9, 100 degree AOV and a 6/2 double-anastigmat construction.

Maybe they couldn't get it into mass production before Zeiss merged the company?

[Pete Roody]

Something interesting came up.
I have been successful in finding various mechanical patents in the past and figured that the lens just might be listed in the patent archives.
A bit of searching on the Google patent search turned out a 1927 patent filed by Franz Urban (of C.P. Goerz) on 21th of December, 1923.

I have the patent mirrored on my FTP, here: http://www.kolumbus.fi/uusilehto/dagorpatent.pdf

I believe it to be the same lens. Aperture ratio of 1:9, 100 degree AOV and a 6/2 double-anastigmat construction.

Maybe they couldn't get it into mass production before Zeiss merged the company?

Maybe you are correct that this is the Patent for the F9 Goerz Dagors. This is the design that Zeiss probably used also. I have a few of these lenses from 75mm to 210mm and they are great performers. I don't know if the American Goerz company used this exact design since they were a seperate firm (from Goerz in Germany) at that time and the American wa dagors had a maximum aperture of F8.

It looks like the patent gives detailed information regarding the design of the lens. Maybe someone out there will try to re-manufacture them. A new 300mm design would be nice.